INDIAN SONNY'S BOLIO DOGS -- BETTER THAN PATRICK'S?

[EWO]

Since this is an opinion post, I'm not a breeder nor a Patrick/Sonny historian, I will chime in on what I have seen or owned.

http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum...p?dog_id=42272

This was an extremely talented, as game as they come and could flat shut it down. He won two but had one of the gamest scratches I have ever seen. Most "Bolio bred Patrick dogs" are not really know for mouth. This Kasai male consistently threw a boat load of mouth to everything he was bred to. Granted most were crosses, and the bottom half had some biters but he elevated the mouth of everything he was bred to.

http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum...p?dog_id=12915

Same with this male. Both he and his sister could flat shut it down. (A more recognizable name like Tarheel Matt can attest). I have never seen a dog that flat enjoyed his profession like Cornbread enjoyed his. His sister was like him but more talented.

http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum...p?dog_id=41369

This is a dog that if all his tools were graded none would be considered exceptional. He did everything well just not outstanding. His best attribute was he would stay between a dog's eyes for as long as it took. 2 minutes, 2 hours, or 2 days. All the same to him. We ended up will all of the litter except 1 all of ours were match dogs.

http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum...p?dog_id=41364

This dog developed bad habits after his career got going. 1st one was impressive and the second was done without a full compliment of hardware.

If I had to make a call I think I would lean toward the dogs off Bolio would have been better with Sonny but at the same time they would have not been as accessible. Basically odds are, and just going on odds, if Sonny ends up with Bolio I never get to own any of these dogs above. Since Patrick did, I was able to stand on top of them. If that makes sense.

Sort of fence riding but I don't see Sonny inbreeding the dog and spreading the offspring all over like Patrick did. I see one making better match dogs and preventing me from having that chapter and the other making it possible thru accessibility.
Sorry if I babbled. RWO

[Officially Retired]

This was an extremely talented, as game as they come and could flat shut it down. He won two but had one of the gamest scratches I have ever seen. Most "Bolio bred Patrick dogs" are not really know for mouth. This Kasai male consistently threw a boat load of mouth to everything he was bred to. Granted most were crosses, and the bottom half had some biters but he elevated the mouth of everything he was bred to.

You mention you don't care about pedigrees, but I posted Kasai's photograph to make (yet another) point about TRUTH in breeding.

Most members are familiar with my article The Truth on Mason's Ch Hammer. (It is recommended that any newcomer read this article first.)

Your dog, Patrick's Kasai, only serves to reinforce my article. The truth is, Cheryl Tiegs' true pedigree makes her bred almost like my Missy bitch, as Tessy was really Ch Hammer's sister from the first breeding.

If you change Kasai's pedigree to read as it should, you would see that (including Ch Bobby Jr., who is Hammer's half-brother, also off Reuben) Kasai is 25% Ch Hammer blood ... and therefore a veritable cousin to any of my Poncho/Missy/Ruby direct offspring.

These dogs are not true "Bolio dogs" ... but more Bolio/Carver dogs. This is another reason why my dogs went 5-0 against Patrick's "purebred" beauties, the Carver influence. It is the same reason Kasai produces on another level from the typical "new era" Bolio dog ... the addition of true Carver blood, through Reuben, at 3 different points in his pedigree. Patrick's Tessy is actually Reuben/Blitz (pure Carver). Bobby Jr. is also off of Reuben. Patrick linebred on Rick Rude and Black Beauty for a reason is Kasai ... he knows this and integrated them ... and it is also why these dogs were more expensive than his (fruitless) "Pinhead" type dogs.

Anyway, it may not matter to you, but IMO Kasai looks more like a Hammer dog than a typical Bolio dog ... and that is because he carries 1/4 "Hammer's siblings" in his pedigree

As someone who has run the line for nearly 3 decades, and spent thousands with Patrick, the Hammer dogs are simply tougher, gamer, scrappier dogs than the truly "pure Bolio dogs" Pat had (that didn't have Hammer). And, if you ask Pat, Cheryl Tiegs was his best bitch the last 25 years.

Jack

PS: Only the second brood bitch I ever bought, back in 1990, was a direct daughter of Cheryl Tiegs, named Rio, whom I bred to Truman. (The pedigree shows the ADBA breeding of Rio, not her true breeding.) Anyway, Rio didn't take after Tiegs at all, but one of my earliest breedings after that was to breed a daughter of Truman/Rio to Rick Rude (specifically to focus on Cheryl Tiegs to bring that out again) ... which produced (Dream Killer's Cuervo) ... who beat HOE in over an hour-twenty. So I've been pretty familiar with the Cheryl Tiegs/Hammer blood for a very long time now

[Bigfoot23]

Hey Jack if you dont mind, do you think the same results would take place if you replace the Bolio dog and used sorrells bull? I mean they both were out of Zeke or did they just produce different types of dogs? Also i'am no expert on the sorrell line but Zeke/Eli/Corvino was the base for the line right. thank you

[Officially Retired]

Hey Jack if you dont mind, do you think the same results would take place if you replace the Bolio dog and used sorrells bull? I mean they both were out of Zeke or did they just produce different types of dogs? Also i'am no expert on the sorrell line but Zeke/Eli/Corvino was the base for the line right. thank you

Koehler's Bull (aka: Sorrells' Bull) was actually out of Bolio's sister (Daisy was Zeke/Goldie) bred back to Zeke, making Bull a 3/4 Klaus' Zeke bred dog.

I never saw the dog, but I heard he was cold. Still, he was an impressive physical specimen and a 3/4 Zeke dog. When I spoke to him, Pat Patrick did not even know that it was from Klaus' (Hernandez') Ch Zeke 4xW that Bolio got his head-fighting ability, as many rated Bolio's daddy Zeke as the finest head dog of his day.

Therefore, even though he was cold, I would say that Koehler's Bull would be an excellent stud dog to use, and would likely be a high-percentage producer (as his production record reflects). In fact, there were two Grand Champions off of Bull bred to Carver/Corvino-type bitches, that were behind Sorrells' foundation dogs.

Jack