gameness

[Officially Retired]

The irony is that everyone wants the super skilled assassin who can finish in 10 minutes, but if he meets his equal, you'll he glad his sire or dam was game as the day is long. No disrespect to anyone, but if I can have a worldbeater of a dog out of a redboyjocko or bolio tombstone dog, or a chinaman.. eli.. snooty... honeybunch... I'll go with the rbjbt dog.. in my minds eye, they have a more solid background. In layman's terms, if You have a worldbeater who meets his match, you'll be glad if his parents were game plugs

This is so true.

When it gets into the trenches, it is better to have crafted the ability into your dogs on a foundation of gameness ... than it is to breed "for ability" on a foundation of question marks (and bad moves ignored) ...

Jack

[Officially Retired]

I dont see that it has to be a choice of breeding to a game no talent dog or a killing cur. Theres plenty of good dogs about that are both game and have plenty of talent \ finish.
Any dog I use needs to be game BUT must have more than just gameness, I wouldnt use just a game dog, Im looking for more than a plug.

I agree that any dog a person "uses" should have more than gameness, but (for breeding) extremely game plugs off of great parents have a history of producing prepotently, especially if inbred on the right dogs.

I believe it was Frank Fitzwater who said, "Boys, breed your game dogs and you'll get your fighting dogs!" ...

[Officially Retired]

I think ppl need to realize that justt cause a dog is very talented doesnt measn its a curr and just cause a dog is game doesnt mean it untalented makes me think of a thing a old wise man told me he said the best dog and most talented dog is the last dog in there now there have been many dogs that were super talented against one but then prove its also very game against another on its next hunt much like gr ch zebo now true gameness is is something one should always be valued for dont matter what in my eyes this is and always has been the true prestige behind the breed no disrespect these are just my opinions and views

True!

[Officially Retired]

I couldn't agree more on everything you just said as far as gameness and finishing skills. And you are right about Gr Ch Rose Red stopping her after she almost killed RR. There are no excuses from me whatsoever because I did not owned Blonka at the time and I didn't condition her. Both of my old partners dogs ran hot at the :20 mark and couldn't recover to the end. A knowledgeable dogman knows that no matter how game a dog is, they will all stop after they run hot and can't recover.

Great point.

Well, except for my ex partner. She got counted out but trust me she did not quit. Like RR's owner reported in the journal "when it was Blonka's turn to scratched, i tucked RR in real tight and made sure she didnt move, then Blonka got counted out and we screamed and yell like we won the final four!" what he didn't mentioned was that Blonka scratched once she saw where RR was.

Thank you for telling the whole story ...

At one time I offered to buy Blonka for 5K when she was a 2xer, but he refused to sell her to me. Then once she lost, I picked up his trash and turned her into a Champ.

Good for you. This is where opinions vary and "one man's trash becomes another man's treasure." Evo himself conceded that he once lost to a dog he got rid of.

Certainly, if Ch Blonka has that kind of ability ... and only stopped at the point of absolute fatigue ... she is worthy of a shot. Ch Nico (4xW, 1xL) lost to Gr Ch IBM ... but he out-produced IBM by a landslide.

So, my bad if Blonka's conditioning is what caused her the loss.

Jack

[FarmersChoice]

Great point.





Thank you for telling the whole story ...





Good for you. This is where opinions vary and "one man's trash becomes another man's treasure." Evo himself conceded that he once lost to a dog he got rid of.

Certainly, if Ch Blonka has that kind of ability ... and only stopped at the point of absolute fatigue ... she is worthy of a shot. Ch Nico (4xW, 1xL) lost to Gr Ch IBM ... but he out-produced IBM by a landslide.

So, my bad if Blonka's conditioning is what caused her the loss.

Jack

this were breeding programs can very makes u really scratch your head sometimes

[FarmersChoice]

this also reminds me when jeeps dad champion bo lost to lonzos vindicator but bo went on to produce light years better then vindicator imo

[Ez Country]

Breed for gameness the rest will come. If bred right those game plugs will produce you some of your best dogs. Ez's Tarzan was a game dog with no mouth he did have some talent as he would fight the throat and stay out of trouble. First litter he produced a 1xw1xlq, two others were f'd off. Second litter he produced 3 males all are bet worthy have seen 2 of em show some finish, 1 of which might be an Ace. Third litter is only 11 months old and are looking and acting killer

[Officially Retired]

I posted this on another thread, where it was relevant also, but Outback Kennels' Gr Ch Junior (6xW) is an interesting study of how Champions & Grand Champions in the 4th Generations ... can become losers and unmatched dogs in the 2nd & 3rd Generations ... but who, when interbred one once again, once again produce a 6xW Grand Champion.

This goes to show that, if you're confident in your line, you don't need to panic if you don't have Champions & Gr Champions in every generation ... people need to realize no one does. Game bums off of aces are okay ... and it's also okay to line breed on them

All you have to do is keep re-shuffling the deck and, if you make the right choices and hang onto the right traits, you will once again have complete dogs.

Jack

[pig mad]

http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum...hp?dog_id=9747

this is my old dog in question

[Black Hand]

Original post doesnt make to much sense as far as what the guy is telling you. What I am getting from the post is, guy tells you dont bother breeding to a Ch that died last time out because he was only game... aka saying hes a loser? If this is correct, I would stop talking to that guy asap.

As far as breeding to dogs lacking in areas, for me it would come down to how the dog is bred. If the dog is wound real tight then you should expect some areas to come up short. This is what I have been taught. But that doesnt mean that dog will not throw those traits you are looking for especially if you open it up and add a shot of new blood in there. Example; you having a real tight jeep dog that isnt all what you are looking for but has the minimum of your requirements. If you were to take him to a 50/50 jeep redboy cross, that extra 25% of redboy may be what them pups needed. This is all hypothetical of course, just an example in a perfect world as its much more variables and not so simple.