I gotta get my two cents in. I LOVE ME A GAME PLUG. DOGGERS that abuse them should be culled from having dogs. I agree with Jack 100%, You can always breed a fancy slick bitch to a game plug and get game aces. It's a lot harder to breed in gameness
I gotta get my two cents in. I LOVE ME A GAME PLUG. DOGGERS that abuse them should be culled from having dogs. I agree with Jack 100%, You can always breed a fancy slick bitch to a game plug and get game aces. It's a lot harder to breed in gameness
Totally agree with this also ... to lack a deep appreciation for the defining trait of our dogs, and to deliberately kill dogs that have it, is (essentially) to be an enemy of the breed.Originally Posted by evolutionkennels
They both scratched to a doa dog at the same age. But you're right he was always the top dog and hasn't been put under pressure like his brother. He pretty much blew through everything.
But then I factor in his traits. He is off (SuperStar/Ch Blonka) both parents were out of high percentage litters themselves. From what I've seen in him and from my knowledge of both families, since I have 2 siblings in SuperStar and Little Secret(both tested game) and 3 siblings in Ch Blonka, Ch Buddy and BullsEye(stolen)who had high abilities, into the equation, I think highly of his gameness.
Scratching into a dead dogs confuses a lot of people. The truth is the desire to do this has nothing to do with gameness, only finish. Gameness is the will to persevere no matter what ... ability never to lose one's confidence or drive while things are going rough ... so only one of your dogs is proven game ... while both are proven finishers.
Regarding scratching into dead dogs, I do not agree with this practice for two primary reasons: 1) it is not required to scratch into dead dogs in a match, so a dog doesn't really need this trait in order to win, and 2) many of those "dead dogs" that are killed in the box are (I am sure) the very game plugs we are talking about. So, to me, this is an abuse of dogs that fills no purpose. I have been able to produce more truly DG dogs than most breeders without ever killing another dog ...
The truth is anyone can tell if a dog is truly game (or a finisher), without actually killing another dog, same as anyone can tell if a man is willing to continue (or going to be choked out) in MMA without actually seeing him die ...
I totally agree with you in that it always seems more desirable to breed to the more talented brother ... but it doesn't always prove to be the way to go. Still, it sure does make logical sense. Trouble is, prepotency doesn't always follow logic
I have to say that I too would probably breed to the more talented of two littermates, it is just hard to breed to a dog with less ability, but if the gameness is EXTREME (the kind you can just feel when you see it), then I would give that dog a shot.
Regarding Ch Blonka, didn't she herself pretty much prove the point about the value gameness when she was stopped by Ch Rose Red? Blonka beat the bejesus out of Red, but stood the line. Please forgive me if I am mistaken, but that is what I seem to recall. Maybe breeding Blonka (with her high ability) to SuperStar (with high gameness) will give you a complete dog, but I would rather breed SuperStar to Rose Red, the bitch who beat Blonka on gameness.
Jack
I dont see that it has to be a choice of breeding to a game no talent dog or a killing cur. Theres plenty of good dogs about that are both game and have plenty of talent \ finish.
Any dog I use needs to be game BUT must have more than just gameness, I wouldnt use just a game dog, Im looking for more than a plug.
Yeah thanks not trying to breed hog dogs though can pick those up off the street trying to get a serious yard together cause the more i talk to others and read the more i see were they going wrong this guy who said dont breed to this other fellas dog cause it only game well that only game dog beat his in 2 hours and next 1 he did quit in 1 hour so that leaves me to think he making mistakes some where i think he feeds his dogs for the wrong reasons i see to much ego caught up in it all..
I was given my game plug to save him from going into the hands of dick heads as you previously mentioned and the plug is whats giving me the bug saw him catch a wild dog 40kg big feral fucker well for 20min my plug was getting eaten i was shitting myself hahaha thought i was gonna have to jump in and stab this fucken thing and it was only me and the plug out in the scrub a million things were going through my head all of wich were me thinking i made a big mistake my dog was gonna die if i jump in what sought of disease is this dingo going to carry and if he gets on me the dog already proved he was not going to be much help i was nearly sick and the hair on my neck was near pulling my skin off i was that amped and then all of a sudden dingo try make a break for it but plug got his foot starts shaking that leg like crazy whent for another hold and this dingo try jump on back of my car to get away i near blew in my pants hahahaha old plug finally got him beat he jumped up and shook dingo off my car dingo tried go under the car so plug straight under with him im nearly in tears of joy just writing this hahaha i was thinking fuck you dingo old bronx dog got you beat another 5min gos by and dingo laid down old plugger mouth full of rib cage so i just stabbed the dingo and took old plugger home for some tlc ever since i been having funny thoughts and doing my home work hahahahahaha...
Old plugger has cost me thousands in kennel alterations use to be all mesh and full of pig dogs now it full of bull dogs and more solid than fort knox who would have thought 1 old dog could change my life so much..
has to be a choice cause thats what i got and think that out of his litter something got to have ability if your blessed to have a big yard of dogs well maybe no you dont need it but just starting out i got to breed to what i got and just game is a good start i would have thought.
Old mate told me many a ch been bred from a cur but breeding to a cur seems like a good path to failure for me...
The irony is that everyone wants the super skilled assassin who can finish in 10 minutes, but if he meets his equal, you'll he glad his sire or dam was game as the day is long. No disrespect to anyone, but if I can have a worldbeater of a dog out of a redboyjocko or bolio tombstone dog, or a chinaman.. eli.. snooty... honeybunch... I'll go with the rbjbt dog.. in my minds eye, they have a more solid background. In layman's terms, if You have a worldbeater who meets his match, you'll be glad if his parents were game plugs
I think ppl need to realize that justt cause a dog is very talented doesnt measn its a curr and just cause a dog is game doesnt mean it untalented makes me think of a thing a old wise man told me he said the best dog and most talented dog is the last dog in there now there have been many dogs that were super talented against one but then prove its also very game against another on its next hunt much like gr ch zebo now true gameness is is something one should always be valued for dont matter what in my eyes this is and always has been the true prestige behind the breed no disrespect these are just my opinions and views
I couldn't agree more on everything you just said as far as gameness and finishing skills. And you are right about Gr Ch Rose Red stopping her after she almost killed RR. There are no excuses from me whatsoever because I did not owned Blonka at the time and I didn't condition her. Both of my old partners dogs ran hot at the :20 mark and couldn't recover to the end. A knowledgeable dogman knows that no matter how game a dog is, they will all stop after they run hot and can't recover. Well, except for my ex partner. She got counted out but trust me she did not quit. Like RR's owner reported in the journal "when it was Blonka's turn to scratched, i tucked RR in real tight and made sure she didnt move, then Blonka got counted out and we screamed and yell like we won the final four!" what he didn't mentioned was that Blonka scratched once she saw where RR was.
At one time I offered to buy Blonka for 5K when she was a 2xer, but he refused to sell her to me. Then once she lost, I picked up his trash and turned her into a Champ.
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