Sure Osage, which is why I stated up front I don't ruin young dogs.
That being said though, I personally don't think a serious game test is stupid. Have I done it with every dog? No, but I've done it with plenty. A serious game test is tantamount to a serious match. That's how I look at it.
I never make dogs push weight in any kind of gameness check, but I do believe, and always have, that gameness should be the backbone of a program.
I can agree with all of that. Each and every dogman have their own threshold that they cross when it comes to testing their dogs. It can vary in many ways and we don't have to agree on how to do it either. I tend to fall somewhere in the middle between you and Jack when checking one out. It's never cut and dry.Originally Posted by FrostyPaws
I've been around some that like to test their dogs when they are out of shape and overweight. I've seen some that like to test their dogs when it is super hot. Some put them both together (overweight and hot) at the same time. I disagree with all of that and would never do it that way. It is my opinion that it is the lazy way and doesn't really give a good insight to true gameness and many times falls into the "Hardcore" mentallity. I like to see them make their decision for other reasons.
I've been around people that really never found what they were looking for too. They go through dog after dog and never seem to ever have anything to show for it.
Winning a lot more than you lose is the "proof" of method.
Those who aren't doing this, need to re-evaluate.
Rolling dogs in the heat is a good way to check gameness, IMO, so long as it's not dangerously-hot.
They get tired faster, and thereby take less damage.
You get to see their willpower under stress a lot quicker ... but you have to have the sense to pick up before they're gasping for breath.
And those are invariably "the hardcore farmers" ...
Jack
I need to make a pedigree for US1's Abu 1XW. He was a GrCh virgil/GrCh Mayday bred male. In a roll at 18 months his owner did not like him. I thought he showed promise. I swapped out a puppy for him. We sat on him for a few months then rolled him. He was no world beater but looked better than the last time. We schooled him a couple-three more times. He got better and better. I had no experience with either of the lines much less the cross. I liked what I had seen but wanted a little more of the warm fuzzies about his gameness. For his 'game check' I ran the shit out of him on a carpet mill, got him really tired and worn down and then put him in the box. I felt like he showed gameness as far as being tired and being enthusiastic about performing and after a couple long counts he went across with ill intent. Without taking a long drawn out beating. Again, I rolled the dice.
He made all his scratches. He was a game dog. Won in 1:55. EWO
I don't think young dogs should be judged yet, either.
Only schooled and developed.
I guess we would have to come to terms with what "a serious gametest" means, exactly.
I will never purposely game test any dog with extreme talent.
If a dog its own size can't "test him," then that is all he needs to prove: that he is a badass dog capable of beating the piss out of any dog its weight.
In this, we agree.
I have "rolled out" uncountable dogs, which is tantamount to an unconditioned match.
Dogs like Sun Demon were rolled-out 3x, always being on bottom, always getting the worst of it, and always coming back to stop the dog in the end. I didn't roll Sun Demon much, because of his low ability, and he always had to give up so much blood to finally "win" ...
On the other hand, nothing Silverback's weight could stay with him: not Jeep/Redboy dogs, not Eli/Redboy dogs, not heavy Boomerang dogs, not the Old Man's Robert T-bred dogs, and not my own dogs his weight. He fucking decimated them all. He had faults, but his strength (literally), speed, and his innate knowledge of how to finish, simply were too much for the dogs he faced, 9x in a row. I rolled him so much because it was always over with so fast.
I had to make Silverback push weight to game-check him, 4-lb to be exact, and only then was his shortwindedness exploited by the TANK of a dog in Sun Demon. Still, Silverback never went down in ANY roll he ever had, and was driving Sun Demon all over the pit. Sun Demon had a telephone pole for a neck, and I knew The Gorilla wouldn't be able to finish him, and so I got to see him tired (it was a very hot day and The Gorilla fought at 100 mph), and he was heat-stroke-tired by only :29. That was the longest he ever went, but his drive and total intent NOT to be dominated and to TRY to kill Sun Demon were unmistakable.
If they were the same weight, it would have been a :05 fight (like 4 of Silverback's were, including 2 into the Old Man's stock, where they were down and dying in short order, one with Silverback pushing 2 lb). That wasn't going to happen with Sun Demon.
Anyway, I can't say Silverback is "dead game" over that, but I think he would push it as hard as he could ... and NO DOG HAS LOST off of any Silverback dog that's been matched, one winning in 2:38.
My point is, I won't make any bum push weight (they're already bums and so can't whip something their own size).
But if you have a truly talented dog, then you need to push some weight to even things out a bit to see some bottom.
I would never make it so the smaller dog could be truly hurt, but only to even the odds.
It has always been the backbone of mine, and they win long-distance wars of attrition FAR more than they lose them.
Jack
Jack I must say I have always admired how well written and intelligent you come off by reading your posts on the internet over the years, did you go to school for writing? just curious good post by the way thanks.
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