Bad Habits

[S_B]

So you're saying the gamest, most intelligent men in Alcatraz prison were the ones who "knew" they couldn't escape ... and sat around accepting their fate ... rather than the few who relentlessly tried and finally figured out how to do so?

I absolutely disagree.

I won't compare human intelligence to that of a dog. There have been studies and theories, but bottom line, it is all educated guessing. I mean, why are we breeding them, and caring for them, if they are as intelligent as us, they'd take care of those basics things themselves. That's what they do in the wild, humans have stepped in to harness what they are selecting for.


Jack, I never saw Robert T, heard about the dog, but if he was really that bad M'fer, and had the nasty habits, which I have stated that I personally do not like. I would not breed to that dog. (mangy feet are no issue, that can be cured) There are other bad M'fers I'd be selecting for. Ones that don't destroy everything, I agree it is cunning sometimes the things these dogs do to their environment.

But I would be selecting dogs that are cunning when it counts, when faced with a real problem and ones that think on their feet in a jam. Those are the truly special animals in my book.

[Officially Retired]

I won't compare human intelligence to that of a dog. There have been studies and theories, but bottom line, it is all educated guessing. I mean, why are we breeding them, and caring for them, if they are as intelligent as us, they'd take care of those basics things themselves. That's what they do in the wild, humans have stepped in to harness what they are selecting for.

Again, it's hard to keep a discussion on track with you, because you say things that were never said.

I never said dogs were "as intelligent as humans," so why do you complicate the discussion by adding BS to it?

Dogs *do* have some intelligence, and (just like some people are smarter than others) some dogs are smarter than others ... so I don't know why we can't agree on this simple FACT.

Do you think all dogs have ZERO intelligence? I hope not.
Do you think all dogs have the exact same level of intelligence? I hope not.
Or, do you have the basic sense to realize some dogs ARE smarter than others? I hope so

Jack, I never saw Robert T, heard about the dog, but if he was really that bad M'fer, and had the nasty habits, which I have stated that I personally do not like. I would not breed to that dog. (mangy feet are no issue, that can be cured) There are other bad M'fers I'd be selecting for. Ones that don't destroy everything, I agree it is cunning sometimes the things these dogs do to their environment.

Well, then here is were we disagree in a nutshell: I *would* be breeding to Robert T.
If the Old Man (who's been in the fastest of fast lanes since the 1960s) has never seen a head dog as good as Robert T Jr. (except for his father, the Original Robert T), then we're not talking about "a genetic fluke" we're talking about an ACE who passed on his ACE characteristics into a son ... which is made all the more remarkable because the original Robert T wasn't bred all that much

There is no dog you know of "who doesn't destroy the environment" ... who beat four 4xWs ... and whose daddy beat two Grand Champions and two Champions ... plus 5 other dogs.

The absolute key to having THE BEST performance dogs is breeding to (and harnessing genetically) THE BEST performance characteristics ... not to breed to the dogs on your yard that are "the most convenient" to raise

Now, if a man is lucky and gets all of that in one dog, great.
But if a particular dog is absolutely excellent ... I mean truly superior ... but he has some flaws, or annoying tendencies, then IF you're a performance breeder you have to bite the bullet and breed to that ace ... because the moment you don't, you are NOT breeding for the best dogs, you're breeding for your own personal preferences of conduct.

But I would be selecting dogs that are cunning when it counts, when faced with a real problem and ones that think on their feet in a jam. Those are the truly special animals in my book.

LOL, mine too. But there aren't too many dogs that could "think on their feet" and outsmart some of the baddest dogs who ever lived, more so than Robert T and Robert T Jr. ... who beat 6 Champions and 2 Grand Champions between the father/son team.

I seriously doubt too many father/son dogs you know can make that statement ... and I for one would just about give my left nut to have those 2 dogs on my yard, along with a couple of my foundation bitches, because I know I would have hurt a lot of people's feelings with their pups

Jack

[S_B]

LOL, mine too. But there aren't too many dogs that could "think on their feet" and outsmart some of the baddest dogs who ever lived, more so than Robert T and Robert T Jr. ... who beat 6 Champions and 2 Grand Champions between the father/son team.

I seriously doubt too many father/son dogs you know can make that statement ... and I for one would just about give my left nut to have those 2 dogs on my yard, along with a couple of my foundation bitches, because I know I would have hurt a lot of people's feelings with their pups

Jack

You are correct on that Jack!

I made a few phone calls to some folks who knew that blood pretty well. Mostly they all said Robert T was a good dog, but nothing extraordinary. One said GR CH Angus would have destroyed him if they had met. One said, who saw him while he was a great dog, he was no where near the baddest who ever lived.

And a good head dog really doesn't use their cutters as much as they use their molars.


S_B

[Officially Retired]

You are correct on that Jack!

I never doubted that for a second

I made a few phone calls to some folks who knew that blood pretty well. Mostly they all said Robert T was a good dog, but nothing extraordinary. One said GR CH Angus would have destroyed him if they had met. One said, who saw him while he was a great dog, he was no where near the baddest who ever lived.

Opinions are like assholes, only some stink more than others. The fact is, none of the people you called had dogs that could kiss Robert T's ass accomplishments-wise (or Zukill's for that matter).

Another fact is every dog that BOTH Robert Ts beat were better dogs (and fought for more money) than anyone whom you called ever had also

Indian Bootlegger, for example, was a devastating "killed everything" dog (cover of the Journal / talked about nationwide) that was backed by the Indian and Danny Burton, both of whom have seen/done more than anyone you called also. But Robert T. Jr. stopped that dog cold without a cutter in his head. Spotted him weight too.

Now, Zukill was a badass dog, but no one said anything about the Robert Ts being "badass" dogs ...
But the Robert T's damned sure STOPPED more "badass" dogs ... by riding them out into frustration ... than any dog you have ever petted in your life.

Like your clueless friends, Danny Burton (after he and the Indian lost with Bootlegger) told the old man that Robert T was "a cur-fighting head dog" ... and the Old Man asked, "Do you have anything his weight?", to which there was silence on Burton's end, seeing as he and the Indian just got cleaned out after watching the baddest dog between them quit to Robert T.

I don't know anything about Angus, but I know he wasn't any better than any of the 6 Champions and 2 Grand Champions both Robert Ts beat ... nor did he win as many fights, nor beat as many Champions as T Sr. ... including the 4xW Ch Gomez dog. Ch Gomez had killed all 4 dogs in :40 or less ... and was considered a "2-bite gut dog" ... if he got back there twice, you were dead. Men like Strothers (of Gr Ch Luther fame) and Hargrove (of Gr Ch Rufus/Outlaw fame) told The Old Man there was "no way" Robert T Sr. could beat the Ch Gomez dog. The Old Man asked ... "How much do you want to bet?"

That fight went 3:10 ... and Ch Gomez got back there a time or two ... but Robert T never relinquished his control ... and finally, at 3:10, Gomez took the count with a head the size of a pumpkin, shaking his blood/fluid-filled head in a state of confusion and exhaustion.

I personally wouldn't trade a hair off of Robert T's ass for Angus, and Angus will never have the record of Robert T, nor did he produce a single dog with the record of Ch Robert T Jr.

But you can think what you want. I have always said, and believed, that stupid-aggressive people like stupid-aggressive dogs.
And there was a mile-long waiting list of people with "badass dogs" looking to beat T and T Jr. ... the "ear-fighting curs" ... but they all went home scratching their heads and stitching up their wallets.

And a good head dog really doesn't use their cutters as much as they use their molars.
S_B

Thanks for the lesson on what "a good head dog" does ... I've only been breeding them for 24 years

Also, Zukill wasn't a head dog, but he killed 6 in under an hour ... with no cutters either ... any ideas as to why?

Jack


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[S_B]

Opinions are like assholes, only some stink more than others

Agreed

The fact is, none of the people you called had dogs that could kiss Robert T's ass accomplishments-wise (or Zukill's for that matter).

That is not a fact, only your opinion Sir. And one in which you can not substantiate as you do not know who I called.

Another fact is every dog that BOTH Robert Ts beat were better dogs (and fought for more money) than anyone whom you called ever had also

Another of your opinions. Fact is all the men I called have had CH's & GR CH's and over 200 years worth of experience in dogs between them, some of which fought for as much or more than the Robert T's. To say for a fact that none of the dogs they had between them were better can not be said with certainty.

I personally wouldn't trade a hair off of Robert T's ass for Angus

Nor would I want to convince you otherwise. We all are passionate about the truly great warriors that have graced the pit walls.

But you can think what you want. I have always said, and believed, that stupid-aggressive people like stupid-aggressive dogs.

I have never said what I personally thought about the Robert T's, I only reported back what was told to me by 5 different men, two of which saw the dog (Robert T). The stories were pretty much consistent though I will say that. So could jealousy have played a role in their answers I do not know, but of the 5 men, none ran together. And they each have good or even great dogs they are known for.

I can't stand stupid aggressive dogs, or dogs with bad habits! LOL But couple the two aforementioned behaviors with a badass dog, and I will make the exception.

Thanks for the lesson on what "a good head dog" does ... I've only been breeding them for 24 years

You bet Sir! haha

Also, Zukill wasn't a head dog, but he killed 6 in under an hour ... any ideas as to why?

Jack

Actually no idea, as I don't know anything about the dog, but I'm up for that lesson!


Oh, and I've petted some pretty badass dogs!

S_B

[Officially Retired]

Agreed

That is not a fact, only your opinion Sir. And one in which you can not substantiate as you do not know who I called.

Fair enough. Enlighten me then

Another of your opinions. Fact is all the men I called have had CH's & GR CH's and over 200 years worth of experience in dogs between them, some of which fought for as much or more than the Robert T's. To say for a fact that none of the dogs they had between them were better can not be said with certainty.

Fair enough. Enlighten me then

Just know that, a mere 4 people (who likewise had more than 200 years' collective experience), and WHOM I NAMED ... called the Robert T's "curs" because of their style ... seen them go with their own eyes ... bet against them with their money ... AND LOST

So I will continue to take your second- and third-hand (nameless) opinions with more than just "a" grain of salt

Nor would I want to convince you otherwise. We all are passionate about the truly great warriors that have graced the pit walls.

True. And you never could convince me otherwise.

Even Danny Burton forgot the words of his own, self-admitted idol (Earl Tudor): "I will take a good ear dog and WHIP most of these so-called 'fast track' dogs ..."

And Robert T and Robert T Jr. PROVED THIS ... they were the the best ear dogs that ever lived ... 6 Champions and 2 Grand Champions defeated between the two of them ... 13 wins total

And I will bet no two dogs any of the people you've talked to can touch this

I have never said what I personally thought about the Robert T's, I only reported back what was told to me by 5 different men, two of which saw the dog (Robert T). The stories were pretty much consistent though I will say that. So could jealousy have played a role in their answers I do not know, but of the 5 men, none ran together. And they each have good or even great dogs they are known for.

See the last 2 responses I gave above ...

Fact is most "country boys" talk shit about ear dogs ... they want to see "FIGHT-IN" ... so they run their mouths at ear dogs ... but they too will have to pay The Piper when they face a good one.

I can't stand stupid aggressive dogs, or dogs with bad habits! LOL But couple the two aforementioned behaviors with a badass dog, and I will make the exception.

LOL< fair enough

You bet Sir! haha

Actually no idea, as I don't know anything about the dog, but I'm up for that lesson!

He liked the guts ... and the throat ... and would get whole mouthsful of each ... which only require pressure to kill ... not necessarily teeth

Oh, and I've petted some pretty badass dogs!
S_B

Again, fair enough

Jack

[S_B]

And I will bet no two dogs any of the people you've talked to can touch this

Jack

You would have lost part of that bet.