Good Handler or Questionable gameness ?

[FrostyPaws]

I've seen one scratch to continue, but I'm like EWO. I'm simply not giving them that option. I will have to politely decline at any point they ask. I won't scratch to win any contest. They will simply have to pick their dog up or leave it down. Makes me no difference. Nine times out of 10, I'm not letting the opponent courtesy either unless it's by the tail. Even then, the chances aren't good at me going for that. My dog has done his job, and that's all that is required.

As for calling turns on your own dog, I did that with Bishop in both shows he won. I knew that the best shot I had with him was to get the scratching started. That was about the ONLY thing he excelled at, and it was also at a time where I was one of those people who wasn't interested in a match quality dogs. I was simply interested in matching dogs. Either way, it worked out for me, and I'm of the mindset that if that allows me the better chance at winning, I'll call a turn on my dog every chance I can to give me that advantage.

Ditto on the TFX handling post.

[TFX]

In 19 years, I've never heard of anyone even get a warning for not trying to make a handle.

Ding Ding Ding.... Winner, winner chicken dinner! I think I once saw some sloth who was flat behind on a couple of handles; to the point the other entry was already heading to his corner with his dog, and the ref cautioned him to get with the program, but this whole "immediately foul you out for the slightest delay" business is simply not a reality.

[TFX]

This is a team sport and the best team wins. if my opponent makes a handle i will grab my charge BUT i will not initiate a handle that will not be advantageous to my team.

Exactly! Do I help the other guy out in the name of so-called "sportsmanship" (which this game severely lacks anyhow), only to put my own team at a disadvantage? Hell no! I'll err on the side of me and my dog winning every time, thank you very much. To do anything less is foolhearty. I've all but purged dishonesty completely out of my life, and if I was handling one tomorrow night, I wouldn't change a thing in this regard.

[R2L]

in eastern europe they have somehow setup different kind of rules, no handles on your own initiative but there must be a 3 sec out of hold count by the ref in order to both handle your dogs. very bad for the game in my opinion

[EWO]

Seen it given one time but it was way late for it to matter. As far as the crowd goes, when three or four travel and end up in a spot with 15-20 guys on the home team anything that does not go their way can get rowdy. Not because the dog men in the crowd disagree, but because of the 15-20 maybe four or five have dogs. I hate to say never, but I can't think of a circumstance where I would give a scratch to continue or make a handle to benefit the other squad. But, I will ask for one (and hope but not expect) and try to make the handle, or maybe not make the handle if it benefits my dog.

[OGDOGG]

Scratch to continue could benefit both camps. If I had a dog that's hard to handle where you have to pry him off, then yes I would agree to one. I will go as far as hinting them to ask for one also. The sooner it ends the better.

[skipper]

I've seen one scratch to continue, but I'm like EWO. I'm simply not giving them that option. I will have to politely decline at any point they ask. I won't scratch to win any contest. They will simply have to pick their dog up or leave it down. Makes me no difference. Nine times out of 10, I'm not letting the opponent courtesy either unless it's by the tail. Even then, the chances aren't good at me going for that. My dog has done his job, and that's all that is required.

As for calling turns on your own dog, I did that with Bishop in both shows he won. I knew that the best shot I had with him was to get the scratching started. That was about the ONLY thing he excelled at, and it was also at a time where I was one of those people who wasn't interested in a match quality dogs. I was simply interested in matching dogs. Either way, it worked out for me, and I'm of the mindset that if that allows me the better chance at winning, I'll call a turn on my dog every chance I can to give me that advantage.

Ditto on the TFX handling post.

Good post

[EWO]

I agree with TFX as well. When your partner is willing to die for you and your money the very least you can do is not give the other guy any kind of advantage. I do believe every dog has the right to quit and that is why it is a scratching contest. I think in all fairness to the dogs the handles should be made cleanly and at the appropriate time so if one is ready to hang it up he does not have to endure if he does not want to be there, but....the other guy has to do the same for his own dog. I can't look out for both of them. EWO

[Officially Retired]

Well, if someone is into doing the opponent a favor and helping them win, I suppose they will handle to their utmost ability each time out of holds, thereby placing the burden back on their own dog again every other handle.

That would be a slight exaggeration of what I meant

You wouldn't be able to see if I was sandbagging it a bit as a handler when the other entry is up, but you could be damned sure I was going to show the other guy up when it was our turn to scratch, even if it meant pulling my dog from the bottom and forcing the other guy to handle his.

Good point.

Jack, there's no rule that says you must be anywhere other than in the pit when the show is going on. Now, I'm not suggesting that being 16 feet away in an opposite corner is a good place to be, but you don't need to be in the ready position the whole show after the first turn either.

Agreed.

If you're up against a 300+ pound man who is over 60 years old, do you think he is going to be as fast on the handle as the 21 year old kid who is in shape?

You're building a strawman to knock down. I never said any of this.

I said if there's a CLEAR handle, you should make it. That is the rules: pick up FREE of holds. That doesn't mean if your dog is in the top spot with a half-hold, and the other is on the bottom with no hold, that you "must" snatch your dog up. However, if your dog lets go and is FREE of holds too, then it is incumbent on you to handle your dog. And, yes, you can get warned/fouled for not doing so.

I'm not going to help a guy out any, that is "poor sportsmanship" to my own dog!

I never suggested making wild-ass handles to "help out" the other side; I said you have to pick up FREE of holds after a turn is called.

My pick ups are going to match his pace when he is up to scratch, and there isn't a good ref in the country who would call a foul on that.

I don't think we're actually arguing about anything real here, just your overstating the degree to which I meant to pick up.

Jack

[EWO]

I agree. it seems there were ten different opinions in the beginning but as it was discussed pretty much everyone is on the same page. It is always best to make the decision that best benefits the dog. I would not expect to get a scratch to continue because I doubt I would be giving one if asked, but, I would ask for a cup of tea and a warm sponge bath if I thought it would get my dog in a better spot.
Later in life, after I had been schooled a little I played dumb once and it paid off for my dog. We were ahead, and pulling away early. It was some trash talk back and forth. They called a turn on their own dog and I acted like I had never heard of such. So they spent five minutes explaining and telling me how stupid I was. The ref even told me I should have learned more before I got there. That took a couple of minutes. Then he asked for a scratch to continue. I asked. "How does that work?". I took a severe tongue lashing. This explanation and ridiculing took another five minutes. I was just about the dumbest SOB on the planet. There was a guy there that if I were to call his name out would be very recognizable. He is a 60's and 70's and into the 80's guy. He spoke up as it was winding down and let the cat out of the bag. They were more concerned with telling me how stupid I was, maybe making themselves feel better, to realize they were going deeper down the hole by the minute. I bought my dog some time with him providing quality work without any let up. I made a handler's decision to let him do what he did best and that put him in a good way. It worked. Somewhat backhanded but I was trying to put him where he could do his best. EWO