conditioning on raw ( water in take)

[R2L]

Ah now i understand Ogdogg, you want to give them all the water they need 24 houres before weighing them. Good solution which i think everyone agrees on here.

One thing. If i remember right from raw feeding boards; adding water to raw food makes it pass through the stumic faster which will leave less time for the nutrients to be incorporated into the body. What's you guys opinion on that?

Frosty, I think 1 oz a lb is allot of water for a dog who's being fed raw. Let's say im training a 46 lb dog. You're adding 1,36 liter water to the food?

Jack, i guess you can test it with a dog being worked. adding a certain value of water for one week, pull his skin. Decrease it by 100 ml the next week, check again?


ps: one more question. Do you guys keep feeding raw the days after a hunt. Or would some cooked rice and cooked chicken a few times a day be better on their stumic.

[OGDOGG]

ps: one more question. Do you guys keep feeding raw the days after a hunt. Or would some cooked rice and cooked chicken a few times a day be better on their stumic.

After the show, don't give him any thing that is high protein. Cooked rice should be his only solid with plenty of water. If he doesn't like it plain, add chicken broth to the rice. I feed them just rice and water for 3 days straight. If they look better after 3 days then I'll slowly add chicken without the bone.

[FrostyPaws]

One thing. If i remember right from raw feeding boards; adding water to raw food makes it pass through the stumic faster which will leave less time for the nutrients to be incorporated into the body. What's you guys opinion on that?

Water helps speed up the digestion process. It's not that the food is going through so fast that it's not absorbed properly. It is simply helping the body perform that task at a faster and more efficient rate.

Frosty, I think 1 oz a lb is allot of water for a dog who's being fed raw. Let's say im training a 46 lb dog. You're adding 1,36 liter water to the food?

Yes, I'm adding 46oz of water to the dog's feed. Not long ago, I conditioned a 45lb dog, and he was getting 45 ounces of water, in his feed, everyday. After eating, he would be all filled with water, sure enough. He was also a very hard working dog who needed all the extra fluid given. When I would go out the next day to work the dog, he would usually weigh 46-47lbs. So, combined with the water and the feed and after him emptying out, he was only a lb or two above his show weight. While it may seem a little strange and sound odd, if I was only allowing the dog to drink what he wanted, he would never drink that amount of fluid in one sitting. He wouldn't drink that much fluid in one day, and given the work he was doing, he needed all of it for his body to function at a high level which is exactly what you need when it comes to showing dogs.

[EWO]

An awesome thread. Very informative. I leave fresh water out for the dogs during the work. I add water to the raw mixture as well. I have found that the dog will come off the water on his own. After three weeks or so of work, being fed on a timed basis and having the food mixed with water the dog does not touch the bowl. When he comes off I pick up the bowl and then dial him in on weight with food and water the rest of the way.
The amount of water loss varies from dog to dog. I have a dog now that will drop 2-3 pounds after a hard day. I weigh him before work and after work and adjust the meal/water accordingly. I weigh him again 10-12 hours later and adjust the evening meal accordingly. I am not sure I am on the 1oz. per lb. ration but I am thinking it is very close. He gets about 16oz. per meal which works out to 32oz. per day for a 44lb dog. After factoring in the amount of water in the raw feed I would guess there is another 10oz or so within the feed (meats being app. 70% water).
I will try to dial the water in closer to 1oz per pound to see if I can see a difference. My guess is if I do not change anything else the dog will 'come off' the water a little earlier if I ensure the 1oz per lb ratio.
Great post. EWO

[Officially Retired]

That all makes sense, and yes I would be interested in the reading, thanks.

However, I am also wondering if all that extra water doesn't dilute the stomach acid and interfere with digestion?

[FrostyPaws]

That all makes sense, and yes I would be interested in the reading, thanks.

However, I am also wondering if all that extra water doesn't dilute the stomach acid and interfere with digestion?

Jack, if I'm not mistaken, the extra water is absorbed in the intestines not the stomach. The stomach breaks down the food, and the ingestion of all vital parts of food happens in the intestines.

[Officially Retired]

Jack, if I'm not mistaken, the extra water is absorbed in the intestines not the stomach. The stomach breaks down the food, and the ingestion of all vital parts of food happens in the intestines.

Water is actually absorbed everywhere in the digestive tract. And (according to something I remember reading) the trouble with giving too much water while the dog is eating is this: the water goes in the stomach first, diluting the acid (and thus the initial breakdown of food) while it's all being contained in the stomach.

Jack

Edit/PS: I guess what I am saying is, I think it is a better idea to give all that water in the AM, 12 hours before the work/show, rather than after the workout. If the dog needs the hydration to perform optimally, giving it after his workout (and possibly diluting his digestion) doesn't make as much sense as giving that same water in the AM, allowing it to be processed (and him to be hydrated) by the PM work.

[R2L]

Water is actually absorbed everywhere in the digestive tract. And (according to something I remember reading) the trouble with giving too much water while the dog is eating is this: the water goes in the stomach first, diluting the acid (and thus the initial breakdown of food) while it's all being contained in the stomach.

Jack

Edit/PS: I guess what I am saying is, I think it is a better idea to give all that water in the AM, 12 hours before the work/show, rather than after the workout. If the dog needs the hydration to perform optimally, giving it after his workout (and possibly diluting his digestion) doesn't make as much sense as giving that same water in the AM, allowing it to be processed (and him to be hydrated) by the PM work.

Very good points Ogdogg and Jack, i think this is an even better method. But has the dog fully emptied out all that water 14 houres after? I guess you want to see his right weight just before feeding it after work. Or would you give exactly the same ammount of water on the day on the show? 1,2 kg of water is quiet allot, i figure if the dog holds to much of that you might be contracting over your dogs right weight.

[FrostyPaws]

Water is actually absorbed everywhere in the digestive tract. And (according to something I remember reading) the trouble with giving too much water while the dog is eating is this: the water goes in the stomach first, diluting the acid (and thus the initial breakdown of food) while it's all being contained in the stomach.

This concern is a myth, according to Mayo Clinic gastroenterologist Michael Picco. Picco says drinking water with a meal can help improve the body's digestion. He also says water helps the digestive system function correctly by working to break down food in the stomach. Picco suggests that people can get the same digestive benefits by drinking water shortly after meals. The breakdown process is hormonal and happens naturally, whether people drink water with their meals or not. No research suggests that digestive acids or enzymes are diluted by water intake, but even if they were, the system would still be able to do its job productively.

I haven't been able to find anything that pertains to dogs as of yet. You were right about the water bit. Of course when a dog drinks that much water, the stomach is going to have a say in it. Durh!! I was thinking about when water is pulled from the body to help with digestion, it is pulled mainly to the intestines.

[Officially Retired]

This concern is a myth, according to Mayo Clinic gastroenterologist Michael Picco. Picco says drinking water with a meal can help improve the body's digestion. He also says water helps the digestive system function correctly by working to break down food in the stomach. Picco suggests that people can get the same digestive benefits by drinking water shortly after meals. The breakdown process is hormonal and happens naturally, whether people drink water with their meals or not. No research suggests that digestive acids or enzymes are diluted by water intake, but even if they were, the system would still be able to do its job productively.

I haven't been able to find anything that pertains to dogs as of yet. You were right about the water bit. Of course when a dog drinks that much water, the stomach is going to have a say in it. Durh!! I was thinking about when water is pulled from the body to help with digestion, it is pulled mainly to the intestines.

Thanks for the response.

If the stomach produces 'x' amount of acid, and if you add 'y" amount water to that pure acid, then by default there is dilution going on by a factor of 'y'.

Thus the question of how much this dilution may (or may not) affect digestion would have to be contingent on how much water is being added. While I have not read the report by Dr. Pico, I am instantly wondering if there was any distinction made between "some" water being added to a man's diet (like a normal 8 oz drinking glass), and the entire day's ration of water being added to a man's only meal. To clarify, a 170-lb man needs 170 oz (10.5 lb) of water in a whole day ... and yet he only drinks maybe 8-16 oz of water with a meal ... having the rest of his water intermittently throughout the day. I believe this is what Dr. Pico was likely measuring, meaning "a" glass of water with a meal.

In what you're talking about, Frosty, you're essentially giving a dog ITS ENTIRE DAY'S RATION OF WATER in one setting, while it is also eating its only meal, so I am not sure at all whether Dr. Pico's report for a human having "a glass of water" with a meal means that a person can also drink his entire day's supply (170 oz) of water with his only meal of the day.

So, while I realize there are differences in the digestive tracts of dogs and humans, I sill would like to be able to ask an expert to help clarify this (rather large) distinction as it pertains to "the amount" of water at one setting we're talking about.

Jack