SHAVING bulldog in keep. (Only reply if you've exp or have knowledge in it.)

[MOSES]

That is incorrect thinking. Shaving a dog for weight purposes only needs to be done once and it will be near the end of the keep.

There are two reasons someone would shave a dog for weight purposes. The 1st is the day of the race they see that they wont make weight and start shaving their dog to get off whatever they can. The 2nd way is what i do and it is for an advantage. For example lets say im bringing in a 40lb male and he is sitting at 41-1/2 a week out. I already know how much feed and water to gelive the rest of the keep and come show night i will be 40lbs on the nose. I'll empty my dog out and weigh him he weighs 41-1/2 then i shave him and he weighs 41.3 i removed 5oz of hair. If i continue with the current feed plan i will fall under weight on show night so the food and water intake is adjusted accordingly. Show night comes and i still fall dead on 40lbs but i was able to give my dog more food/fluids than i would have been able to had he not been shaved. It may not seem like a big deal but it is an advantage. If you bring Gr Ch Buck and hook into my Gr Ch Buck with identical keeps but my Buck weighs 5oz bigger I would win.

Gotap_d I respectfully disagree with you, but to each his own, no harm no foul on my end. However, riddle me this. If a conditioner takes the time to put a hound on a scale twice a day, weighing his feed, and regulating his water, for 8-10 weeks, why would you change anything at the last minute? That makes zero since to me.

I have two full grown Akitas (90 and 110 lbs) and I could guess what 5 oz of hair looks like, and I don’t see that coming off of 40 lb bulldog.

REALLY! If you think that 5 oz of hair is going to be difference maker in a hound’s performance, more power to you. If I bring ANYTHING and 5 oz stands between me and a win, I would seriously have to reconsider my position on a whole lot of things.

I have won more than once with what I thought was an inferior hound, not because I shaved him down to his nuts chasing 5 oz. I don’t care what “lane” you are in it boils down to conditioning. Bringing the bigger dog is as much science as it is an art when it comes to conditioning, and then their still is not guarantee that you are fielding the bigger hound.

Assume for a minute that you have two equally matched opponents in all areas; the athlete in superior condition will win the majority of the time.

[gotap_d]

Gotap_d I respectfully disagree with you, but to each his own, no harm no foul on my end. However, riddle me this. If a conditioner takes the time to put a hound on a scale twice a day, weighing his feed, and regulating his water, for 8-10 weeks, why would you change anything at the last minute? That makes zero since to me.

I have two full grown Akitas (90 and 110 lbs) and I could guess what 5 oz of hair looks like, and I don’t see that coming off of 40 lb bulldog.

REALLY! If you think that 5 oz of hair is going to be difference maker in a hound’s performance, more power to you. If I bring ANYTHING and 5 oz stands between me and a win, I would seriously have to reconsider my position on a whole lot of things.

I have won more than once with what I thought was an inferior hound, not because I shaved him down to his nuts chasing 5 oz. I don’t care what “lane” you are in it boils down to conditioning. Bringing the bigger dog is as much science as it is an art when it comes to conditioning, and then their still is not guarantee that you are fielding the bigger hound.

Assume for a minute that you have two equally matched opponents in all areas; the athlete in superior condition will win the majority of the time.

It's all good Moses. If a conditioner has been weighing his dog twice a day, weighing feed and regulating water for 8-10 weeks then shaving his dog towards the end of the keep will have no affect on him because he has been dealing with weight fluctuations for the last 8-10 weeks and adjusting accordingly. If the work picks up in your keep and the sogs suddenly drops weight at a time you dont want him to you will increase feed/fluid accordingly. Same with the weight loss that will occur after the shave. The answer to the riddle though is to seek an advantage.

Because of akitas having a double coat and being a larger breed of dog than the ones i have shaved i'm just guessing here also but i'll say you can get at least 1/2lb of hair off one that weighs 90lbs. The 5oz is being thrown around a lot but i just used it as an example. I know that you wont get the same weight with every dog. You can shave your 90lb akita and someone elses 90lb akita and not get the same weight loss of hair. The very last dog i shaved was a 40m the difference with him with fur and shaved was 3oz. The dog i shaved before him was a 52m and the weight difference with him was exactly 3oz. I have shave 35f and taken 5oz off. So again every dog will be different.

If you are bringing your dog to face another mans dog NO sir i dont believe that 5oz is a difference maker or deal breaker. It is an advantage though.

I believe that conditioning plays a HUGE role in winning or losing and have never ever considered a win to be because of shaving a dog. Its a sport where too many variables can have an effect on the outcome. Did i win this time because i fed supplement x and not z? Did my dog run hot because his blood count was this and not that? Did my dog begin to fade at the end because he was just a little too dry? I believe its just too many variable to pinpoint 1 thing as the cause for winning and losing.

You mentioned bringing the bigger hound is that because you consider bringing a bigger framed dog at the same weight as the smaller framed dog to be an advantage? If you do think that it along the line of what i think on shaving. If you cut you dogs feed back to 1-1/2 cups the last week to make 37lbs but after i shave i can keep feeding 2cups i believe my dog should have more fuel to burn. My dog has less of a chance of oing into a catabolic state than yours.

I totally agree with your senario. If you have 2 evenly matched opponents then the one with superior conditioning will win the majority of the time.

[MOSES]

It's all good Moses. If a conditioner has been weighing his dog twice a day, weighing feed and regulating water for 8-10 weeks then shaving his dog towards the end of the keep will have no affect on him because he has been dealing with weight fluctuations for the last 8-10 weeks and adjusting accordingly. If the work picks up in your keep and the sogs suddenly drops weight at a time you dont want him to you will increase feed/fluid accordingly. Same with the weight loss that will occur after the shave. The answer to the riddle though is to seek an advantage.

Because of akitas having a double coat and being a larger breed of dog than the ones i have shaved i'm just guessing here also but i'll say you can get at least 1/2lb of hair off one that weighs 90lbs. The 5oz is being thrown around a lot but i just used it as an example. I know that you wont get the same weight with every dog. You can shave your 90lb akita and someone elses 90lb akita and not get the same weight loss of hair. The very last dog i shaved was a 40m the difference with him with fur and shaved was 3oz. The dog i shaved before him was a 52m and the weight difference with him was exactly 3oz. I have shave 35f and taken 5oz off. So again every dog will be different.

If you are bringing your dog to face another mans dog NO sir i dont believe that 5oz is a difference maker or deal breaker. It is an advantage though.

I believe that conditioning plays a HUGE role in winning or losing and have never ever considered a win to be because of shaving a dog. Its a sport where too many variables can have an effect on the outcome. Did i win this time because i fed supplement x and not z? Did my dog run hot because his blood count was this and not that? Did my dog begin to fade at the end because he was just a little too dry? I believe its just too many variable to pinpoint 1 thing as the cause for winning and losing.

You mentioned bringing the bigger hound is that because you consider bringing a bigger framed dog at the same weight as the smaller framed dog to be an advantage? If you do think that it along the line of what i think on shaving. If you cut you dogs feed back to 1-1/2 cups the last week to make 37lbs but after i shave i can keep feeding 2cups i believe my dog should have more fuel to burn. My dog has less of a chance of oing into a catabolic state than yours.

I totally agree with your senario. If you have 2 evenly matched opponents then the one with superior conditioning will win the majority of the time.

I aint made at all, in fact I pulled groomed the bitch today and rammed as much coat as I could into a quart zip lock bag (81.2 grams = 2.86 ounces).
Now, yes the coat types are not the same, but now we are really splitting hairs. But, my curiosity was peeked, not as an attempt to discredit what has been said.
True story, I can fill trash cans full of hair at the drop of a dime. That 2.86 ounces came off a well-groomed dog and that was only what fit in the bag.

Na, if shaving them works for you, that SOB would be stark naked!

I ran competitively from the ages of 8 to 30. I have competed in the Junior Olympics, countless Regional and State meets, Pen Relays, and the Mobile 1 Invitational as a D1 athlete at a major university. I have been poked prodded and probed by the best. In the late 80’s early 90’s we used to shave our legs, weight our spikes and the whole nine looking for whatever edge we could find. Hell, I watched Mike Johnson put a 3 second gap on me indoors in the mid 90’s at 500m. I have been running the Marine core and SunTrust marathons for the past 6 years now, and I am still logging 5k every morning. I say this not to layout my life, but establish a baseline for my understanding of conditioning.

Variables are minimized in individual sports such as running. If the focus is running, I know what everything is that I consumed during conditioning and refine or reinforce those things in training. I know how each of these things makes me feel and so on. A lot of people let a dog sit on a chain and then expect him to just get into shape, because they are ready to kinda get of their asses for 8-10 weeks. A canine athlete should always be in shape, and ready to receive conditioning to support the training to follow! This is a commitment to a life style for owner and dog. I give them the same supplements that I take myself; yes I can tell you EXACTLY where I fall short in my conditioning. Now the other environmental factors are a whole different ball of wax. Last year my longest training run was only 15 miles, but I ran my fastest 26.2 at 40 years old. I am nolonger able to run 400m in under 60 seconds becasue the type of conditioning has changed to support the training for longer distances.

Bringing the bigger dog isn’t as easy as it sounds in my experience. Some dogs are built like sprinters and others like distance runners, what I have found are you are looking for something slam in the middle that 400m to 500m type build (take a look at any of them). Mass does not equate to strength, what I look for is a lean, well-toned dog. Height and structure are the equivalent to reach or stride length. When I say the bigger dog, I am talking about a 38 lb dog that looks like he is 40 lbs. What good is strength if you can’t use it, what good is speed if you can’t get away, it’s a chess match with very high stakes.

I guess the concept is the same in that you are looking for an advantage, but that is where it stops IMHO. Anyone who has ever seen my dogs will tell you I am bringing a Grey Hound, because I focus on the development of lean muscle and air. No two dogs are the same; you’ll never effectively turn a distance runner into a sprinter and or Vis versa. The first time your hound runs hot should NOT be in the box, we deal with this as a part of our conditioning not our training.