DISPUTED OR FAKE PEDS FROM THE PAST AND PRESENT .

[Officially Retired]

Jack mayfield was a very good breeder and bred some very good dogs and i think to say otherwise is being very hard indeed i think in texas alone the yards he helped with dogs from his family never mind the others he sent to dogmen
form texas to canada and california to new york who were more than happy with them and would still today wish they could gets dogs bred like
that mayfield sent them.

We simply disagree. People being "happy" with a man's dogs means nothing. Hell, there are millions of people who are "happy" with pomeranians.

What we're talking about is producing seriously good dogs that truly affect the game. And while Mayfield may have bred some good dogs, his influence was negligible when compared to his peers about whom he speaks (Carver, Tudor, Boudreaux). Mayfield's influence as a breeder was nowhere near these individuals'.

Does that make him wrong? Not necessarily. I am sure there is merit in some of what he says, but I sure wouldn't be hanging on his every word like you seem to.

Jack

[ragedog10]

We simply disagree. People being "happy" with a man's dogs means nothing. Hell, there are millions of people who are "happy" with pomeranians.

What we're talking about is producing seriously good dogs that truly affect the game. And while Mayfield may have bred some good dogs, his influence was negligible when compared to his peers about whom he speaks (Carver, Tudor, Boudreaux). Mayfield's influence as a breeder was nowhere near these individuals'.

Does that make him wrong? Not necessarily. I am sure there is merit in some of what he says, but I sure wouldn't be hanging on his every word like you seem to.

Jack

Amen

[projectx]

We simply disagree. People being "happy" with a man's dogs means nothing. Hell, there are millions of people who are "happy" with pomeranians.

What we're talking about is producing seriously good dogs that truly affect the game. And while Mayfield may have bred some good dogs, his influence was negligible when compared to his peers about whom he speaks (Carver, Tudor, Boudreaux). Mayfield's influence as a breeder was nowhere near these individuals'.

Does that make him wrong? Not necessarily. I am sure there is merit in some of what he says, but I sure wouldn't be hanging on his every word like you seem to.

Jack

Jack im surprised that you dont know more about the dogs mayfield dealt to some top dogmen around the usa, but thats fine, but like i said from the south to cannada and if you look inside texas thers more than enough men who kept his line
and were happy to ahve it, as it was the purest of the dibo blood ,and the men who got it knew what they were getting
in dons days.
OK if i was hanging onto every word of dons i would have to hang onto all of them which i dont, as otherwise i would not hesitate to say that there is no doubt that tombstone is out of baby, but i dont as i agree their is every chance it could be
gina, but after weighing up the evidence to hand my gut feeling like yours jack was baby but it could be gina, and you jack
agreed with don that you did feel it was baby so are you not also agreeing as you say i am as it was from my first
post on this thread about tombstone and dons story and audios that you thought that it made sense , so you also are in agreement with mayfield based on the same things i had to work with ,namely the evidence or gut feeling based on the hearsay back story and audio tapes along with a knolwedge of the breeding that did and didnt make sense to do.

On blind billy jack i am in no doubt, and if you and others want to play the (lets make up all the possible scenarios that
might lead to dibo having been bred before earl got him so it makes dibo billys sire)then lets say the same thing about every
breeding ever made before dna was around so we might aswell tear up all the peds from before 1980 and start again.Or we
could do what makes sense, and that is use the brain we have the overall evidence both hearsay (the fact that floyd never
had black dogs before eli came along /other dogmen had seen crybaby nursing the pups/even offered a pup which would have been eli etcetc) then add the dobs in which for more than 50 years in both dbios and billys case no one untill this thread
has ever claimed may be wrong or mistaken and no story of dibo ever being bred before getting to earls yard and even floyds own words as to what year billy was born has never changed , but we want to help floyd by saying maybe he got the dob wrong or maybe dibos dob is wrong , but i can tell you this , and i may myself be wrong but its something i had forgotten and its this, if i buy a dog from you i know i bought it from you so that shouldnt change should it , so why would floyd have told two versions of how he got billy , he has said for sure that he traded earl 3 roosters for billy and then im sure ive seen and definetly heard that floyd also said he got billy from his uncle , but im sure someone will correct me if im wrong, but what im saying is, lets not try to alter what we know at least to be true which is dibos story without trying to add all these scenarios to make it look like dibo is billys sire, then i would say ok make the case ,but it has to be believable the pieces have to fit, not just saying ,well a one year old dog could sire a litter ,or what if heinzl bred him etc etc
without making the pieces fit, all they really are are unrealistic what if scenarios .

To make all or any of the scenarios mentioned in this thread and many others fit better than the actually evidence we already have, it would make the whole thing so over conveluted complex and intricate to such a riddiculous extent
,that it would be easier to find out exactly who killed president kennedy and actually prosecute them than make
the what if dibo scenarios stand up to serious scrutiny, unless of course we decide we want to live in the caos
that is the world of what if scenarios and overlook the obvious, then i agreree anything is possible.

[evolutionkennels]

Jack im surprised that you dont know more about the dogs mayfield dealt to some top dogmen around the usa, but thats fine, but like i said from the south to cannada and if you look inside texas thers more than enough men who kept his line
and were happy to ahve it, as it was the purest of the dibo blood ,and the men who got it knew what they were getting
in dons days.
OK if i was hanging onto every word of dons i would have to hang onto all of them which i dont, as otherwise i would not hesitate to say that there is no doubt that tombstone is out of baby, but i dont as i agree their is every chance it could be
gina, but after weighing up the evidence to hand my gut feeling like yours jack was baby but it could be gina, and you jack
agreed with don that you did feel it was baby so are you not also agreeing as you say i am as it was from my first
post on this thread about tombstone and dons story and audios that you thought that it made sense , so you also are in agreement with mayfield based on the same things i had to work with ,namely the evidence or gut feeling based on the hearsay back story and audio tapes along with a knolwedge of the breeding that did and didnt make sense to do.

On blind billy jack i am in no doubt, and if you and others want to play the (lets make up all the possible scenarios that
might lead to dibo having been bred before earl got him so it makes dibo billys sire)then lets say the same thing about every
breeding ever made before dna was around so we might aswell tear up all the peds from before 1980 and start again.Or we
could do what makes sense, and that is use the brain we have the overall evidence both hearsay (the fact that floyd never
had black dogs before eli came along /other dogmen had seen crybaby nursing the pups/even offered a pup which would have been eli etcetc) then add the dobs in which for more than 50 years in both dbios and billys case no one untill this thread
has ever claimed may be wrong or mistaken and no story of dibo ever being bred before getting to earls yard and even floyds own words as to what year billy was born has never changed , but we want to help floyd by saying maybe he got the dob wrong or maybe dibos dob is wrong , but i can tell you this , and i may myself be wrong but its something i had forgotten and its this, if i buy a dog from you i know i bought it from you so that shouldnt change should it , so why would floyd have told two versions of how he got billy , he has said for sure that he traded earl 3 roosters for billy and then im sure ive seen and definetly heard that floyd also said he got billy from his uncle , but im sure someone will correct me if im wrong, but what im saying is, lets not try to alter what we know at least to be true which is dibos story without trying to add all these scenarios to make it look like dibo is billys sire, then i would say ok make the case ,but it has to be believable the pieces have to fit, not just saying ,well a one year old dog could sire a litter ,or what if heinzl bred him etc etc
without making the pieces fit, all they really are are unrealistic what if scenarios .

To make all or any of the scenarios mentioned in this thread and many others fit better than the actually evidence we already have, it would make the whole thing so over conveluted complex and intricate to such a riddiculous extent
,that it would be easier to find out exactly who killed president kennedy and actually prosecute them than make
the what if dibo scenarios stand up to serious scrutiny, unless of course we decide we want to live in the caos
that is the world of what if scenarios and overlook the obvious, then i agreree anything is possible.

The sheep Clarise... Tell me about the sheep.

[projectx]

The sheep Clarise... Tell me about the sheep.

Evo i could care less if you and the rest of the folks on here think im retarded , but first thing is i think that its disgracefull that you find handicapped children funny and would post that foto even if its to poke fun at me, your just like that school yard bully who thinks hes the bees knees , but im sure anyone on here who may have a child like that would find that offensive and you and the others who think its funny should be ashamed of yourselves , i hope you never have one of your own then see how funny it is and maybe the fact that you posted that foto makes you a little more like the person your trying to paint me as evo . But secondly for you
and the others who might find that funny ,rather than try to make fun of me, why dont you smart alecks try tell me how you get a square peg into the round hole that is floyds story
and the facts regarding blind billy, this is after all is a thread about dogs with disputed pedigrees , or are you so
lacking in any ideas that you take the easy and curs way out evo but then i shouldnt be surpirsed about that i suppose coming from a man or men who would find that foto funny regardless of who its designed to riddicule , and what i would find far more eassy to riddicule is a person or persons who are entitled to their views just as i am , but when faced with facts that they cant dsipute with anymore substantial facts themselves to prove otherwise, would deem to riddicule that person rather than show thier own iron clad theory
that would indeed support that riddicule ,but of ocourse what we get is the bottom of the garbage in a person that can find it funny to post such a foto , maybe its more a true reflection of themselves .

[evolutionkennels]

Evo i could care less if you and the rest of the folks on here think im retarded , but first thing is i think that its disgracefull that you find handicapped children funny and would post that foto even if its to poke fun at me, your just like that school yard bully who thinks hes the bees knees , but im sure anyone on here who may have a child like that would find that offensive and you and the others who think its funny should be ashamed of yourselves , i hope you never have one of your own then see how funny it is and maybe the fact that you posted that foto makes you a little more like the person your trying to paint me as evo . But secondly for you
and the others who might find that funny ,rather than try to make fun of me, why dont you smart alecks try tell me how you get a square peg into the round hole that is floyds story
and the facts regarding blind billy, this is after all is a thread about dogs with disputed pedigrees , or are you so
lacking in any ideas that you take the easy and curs way out evo but then i shouldnt be surpirsed about that i suppose coming from a man or men who would find that foto funny regardless of who its designed to riddicule , and what i would find far more eassy to riddicule is a person or persons who are entitled to their views just as i am , but when faced with facts that they cant dsipute with anymore substantial facts themselves to prove otherwise, would deem to riddicule that person rather than show thier own iron clad theory
that would indeed support that riddicule ,but of ocourse what we get is the bottom of the garbage in a person that can find it funny to post such a foto , maybe its more a true reflection of themselves .

I never said you won the argument! But if the shoe fits...... WEAR IT. The picture implies that arguing about something as you have for as long as you have is as effective as Muhammad Ali applying for Barber school licence suffering from Parkinsons, NOT VERY REALISTIC. IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. I've listened to some of the Mayfield you tube videos, and if you ask me, the kid in the picture probably sounds more intelligent. Now, that being said, I vehemently apologize if I offended anyone by using that picture. Yes, I have a sense of humor, yes, it pushes the envelope, but I wonder if you read the fine print. This board is tired of your rants. You lost the argument the minute that you took what Mayfield said as FACT, it's not , IT'S HIS OPINION, and I guarantee he put his pants on in the Am just like YOU DO.

[projectx]

I never said you won the argument! But if the shoe fits...... WEAR IT. The picture implies that arguing about something as you have for as long as you have is as effective as Muhammad Ali applying for Barber school licence suffering from Parkinsons, NOT VERY REALISTIC. IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. I've listened to some of the Mayfield you tube videos, and if you ask me, the kid in the picture probably sounds more intelligent. Now, that being said, I vehemently apologize if I offended anyone by using that picture. Yes, I have a sense of humor, yes, it pushes the envelope, but I wonder if you read the fine print. This board is tired of your rants. You lost the argument the minute that you took what Mayfield said as FACT, it's not , IT'S HIS OPINION, and I guarantee he put his pants on in the Am just like YOU DO.

EVo first off im asking you a direct question based on floyds words not mayfields and the evidence we have for the blind billy and eli story do you as an inteligent man really beleive billy was sired by dibo ,and if so please give a better explanation to counter the facts we do have and not make believe scenarios .

Secondly you may think mayfield is retarded by that comment you made, but that again is just insulting a man who wasnt so retared that he put toggether enough stuff with the foresight to know thier would always be doubters to what he may say , and the audios certainly prove he was no retard.

THirdly you say im ranting but if you attack i defend , but others who protest just as vehmently that they dont believe it, are also ranting ,but with no evidence other than not wanting to believe the floyd the legend might actually have lied and stolen a litter frommayfield which he made a huge part of his and clemmons name from ,but you find that ok do you ?
I never asked for an argument, the thread is therre for people to talk about famous dogs who have had some doubt placed to their true breeding, and apart from a few people everyone else has either attacked me for putting my view forward onl billy, which i have my opinions on as others have theirs, but no dog talked about other than blind billy has had such a propoderance of the evidence pointing to a realistic truth other than blind billy, but even seemingly inteligent men who
should know better either started to make up fantastic scenarios to make it not so or just attack me by doing the old make
enough noise so that you distract others from the reality , which i have never done , i have argued on all dogs either for or against depending on the overall evidence we had including hearsay and circumtnatial as in tombstones case, but eventhough i dont believe gina was tombstones dam and neither did jack, i cant say she wasnt, and neither could mayfield, but on billy evo
if someone wants to prove the facts that we do have wrong then i will be the first to say ok , because im not bothered
as long as we get the truth if we can,and you wont find me crying that mayfield was wrong ,but so far on billy not one person has shown any proof to counter the proof we do have, so why are you all willing to attack me and mayfield when you have no good reason other than fear of the rabbit hole and how deep it goes.

[Officially Retired]

The sheep Clarise... Tell me about the sheep.

LMAO, it really has gotten to this point ...

[BKNGAME]

The sheep Clarise... Tell me about the sheep.

All this Bk & forth abt dead and gone dogmen when there are 21st Century breeders & dogmen who are altering peds or explaining to u (after purchase) why your peds aren't the same as what's posted on their sites!!! They'll even pretend tht you're the idiot because u didn't know tht "XYZ" didn't hv papers on him in 1983. I had lost over 30+ dogs due to motorcycle accident in 2006 which left me in a wheelchair for over 14 months then rehab, life, etc took another few years before I ws once again able to own this magnificent, highly controversial breed. Since then I've spent a small fortune putting together another yard with completely different strains than before. I researched journals as to who ws doing what and made my decisions on only to find out tht these new acquaintances think completely different. A great friend of mine told me that a good bulldog is where u find him. Firstly know tht u can trust the breeder---registry refused to correct papers on dog due to handwritten peds from Hollingsworth himself tht he obtained personally. 2nd thing I've noticed is that these pit forum site glorify the moderators or creators of site. If u search the respected Vise-Grip kennels on Game-Dog.com there's comments tht Jack's dogs are only good for house pets!! I found this post researching the bulldogs involved in my purchases. I personally hv spent my hard earned money on 2 dogs that contain Jack's breeding (an older dbl "PONCHO" gyp & dam of male pup) & I completely disagree with tht thought until shown differently. These Internet sites do assist in finding certain strains, but if their peds are real or not is a question not only posed from the old schoolers but current bulldog inventory as well. I'm still waiting on papers for 2dogs from a well known breeder who previously had my papers in hand on prior dealings.... will these 2peds be fake?! Best advice any man can hv is keep your own records true & put the dogs 1st. Times hv definitely changed & people are less trustworthy everyday due to economic factors, yard space, & life in general. So beating up on Mayfield, Tudor, Maloney, Patrick should serve as an insight vs a debate ovr which crook u trust the most. THERE ARE NO TRUE PEDIGREES....
I used CA Jack as an example of how people will say anything & I purposely DID NOT mention 21st century breeders/dogmen as to not discredit the work they've done after the illegitimacy of certain dogs in current pedigrees. I only hope to hv the same or better success in retrospect to the Hounds I lost in 2006.

[Officially Retired]

Jack im surprised that you dont know more about the dogs mayfield dealt to some top dogmen around the usa, but thats fine, but like i said from the south to cannada and if you look inside texas thers more than enough men who kept his line

Projectx, I realize you are a Mayfield disciple ... and that you probably wear Mayfield t-shirts and say your prayers to Mayfield at night ... but please don't start talking to me as if "you" are now Mayfield ... because it really can't get much more embarrassing for you at this point



Jack