Breeding Dogs With Structural Defects

[projectx]

Start such a thread if you like.

Just know that, by "following in their footsteps," I meant as a family bloodline breeder only.
There aren't many of these.
Very few people have started and perpetuated their own line.

My standards, preferences, and selection methods are entirely my own.





1 in 50 = 2%.

A 2% error margin is considered very low.

No breeder, in the history of the world, gets a 0% error margin in what he breeds, defect-wise. No one.





Gary probably bred Rufus based on his pedigree, feeling that his blood was strong and that he could produce. Based on Rufus' production record, I would say Gary was correct in his assessment.

Maybe Gary never knew because he just kept Rufus on a chain and didn't interact with him much, I don't know. But I don't see the point in berating the man. He's been in the game a long time, taken the time to write great articles and books that have helped a lot of folks, and in fact is the source of my information on treating cancerous teats in bitches. So Gary has done a lot of good for the fraternity.

How about you? What positive things have you done for the fraternity?





I disagree that you are not trying to discredit Gary. It is quite obvious that you are.

I have to agree that (based on this and other posts) you suffer from a boundary disorder and pretty much only post opinions/derisions of others, always in the negative, and always about what you feel "others" should do differently. I personally don't care what Gary does or doesn't do with his own dogs. Dogs are pretty much "happy campers" whether deaf, blind, or with mangy feet. Only we humans seem to feel sorry for ourselves (and every other creature on the planet) ... and only we humans suffer from the insanity of "not being satisfied" with what other people do. You seriously have a problem with meddling/obsessing with the habits/practices of others.

The fact is, Gary isn't hurting anybody or hurting any dogs. I could see getting upset if he were skinning dogs alive, or bludgeoning them to death, or committing some kind of atrocity over there on his yard. But he is not. He is just trying to breed game dogs and is maybe producing a few deaf dogs along the way. So what? His dogs have won a lot of dog deals, so it's not like he's breeding blue dogs or something.

Again, he has also contributed to Gamedog history through his books and writings, not to mention having a hand in producing the winningest male of modern history, Melonhead.

I don't see the point in saying the same thing, over and over and over again, about his breeding deaf dogs occasionally. 2% is not a bad number, and there are worse traits a dog can have than being deaf.

I am seriously curious as to what positive contributions to the breed you have made, and if you ever have anything POSITIVE to say about anyone/anything?

Jack

.

Jack to begin with , you feel that i make posts that are negative, well if i like others think something is wrong then the post unfortunately will probably come over as a negative post, as i think in a previous reply to one of my posts you and me were pretty much on the same page as far as when and why any of us would breed dogs with a serious or at least relatively serious defect , so its not that i dislike gary in particular, its just that sometimes even if like NQK and others who have a vested interest in garys line as they run it themselves, they cant bring themselves to ever admit or agree that the man who they got their dogs from could ever be wrong in certain things , and that their shit doesnt stink so to speak, which is why i always say that we should all take off our rose coloured glases as we have all at one time suffered from that same thing .

So yes i may sound negative if i feel something is wrong , and breeding to a non outstanding dog as you yourself said jack not once but many times over 40 years and having a line that is known for its DEAF dogs which gary himself says he would not want to do , but infact has done ,seems to be a stupid thing to do over and over again , and if its negative or as NQK likes to say that i am trying to discredit gary , well i think gary in this instance has done that himself , and jack just because you and me have had issues its like even when im right im wrong , but your last post sounds like a lets not say anything against gary eventhough you yourself said that ONLY IF A DOG (WHICH RUFUS WASNT ) WAS AN OUTSTANDING DOG AND A ONE IN A THOUSAND WHICH YOU COULNDT FIND AGAIN WOULD YOU EVER CONSIDER BREEDING TO A DEAF DOG , so even if you want to try and make me out to only be saying it to be negative towards gary , and now try to put up percentages and say oh well its only 2% to try and make it sound like its ok , when you yourself said that in over 20 years of breeding you have never had a deaf dog , so 2% may seem low when put like that , but the point is if gary had not bred them back in as he has done and under your own rules jack of when and only when you would ever do that ,why do you think that his continually breeding in dogs that are deaf and selling deaf dogs for breeding stock to others is a good thing to do and good breeding practice because your last post was i consider negative towards me for me just saying what you yourself agree with that you would only ever maybe under extreme circumstances breed to a deaf dog , but you would rather try to put me down and say im negative .

Yes gary has been around the dogs for many years ,and i have said that he has put out good dogs like many others have done but does that mean i or anyone else is not allowed to say anything that isnt all positive if it isnt ? are we to not say that a dog has a false ped when we think or know it has ? there is no rule where we msut only post when we have something positive to say , maybe its becasue there are many of those already and i never started the breeding dogs with structural faults thread to then go on to try to discredit gary , and infact if that was my objective i could start threads all day long and use them to do just that about anyone if i was trying to do it but im not .

Yes i found it funny that he didnt notice rufus was deaf , and again you tried to make it seem less funny or stupid by making excuses for him not noticing it, but considering NQK thinks that gary ( and yes this guru type bull way of thinking about our dogmen heros that he somehow had a super perception and thats why he bred rufus a deaf dog, as he knew being so perceptive and all knowing that he would produce well ) yet he didnt even notice not after a day but in his own words A LONG TIME later that he was deaf amde me laugh.So maybe as i say when were to close to someone or attached to them we put them on a pedastal and give them qualities they maybe dont have, and i found that not noticing rufus was deaf a good example of that , but human nature doesnt allow some people to see the obvious even when they see it , thats the rose coloured glases syndrome which i myself used to suffer from but not anymore .

Jack i agree with you about why gary probably decided to breed rufus knowing he was deaf , and as you said it was because he was bred well , and i said this in previuos posts were i feel that the reason most dogmen breed their defective dogs is for that reason mostly and as i said before when you ask them why or read stories of the same they always say WELL HE WAS BRED WELL ,so i understsand that but you then go on to say oh i dont care what gary or anyone else does with there dogs , etc etc , well im sure most of us dont care about what others do with there dogs, but as this is a forum with threads on various aspects of the dogs , i assume that the forum is there for a cross section of posts of which depending on the subject matter will be more black and white and others less so , but im sure that whehter the man who posts on what dog feed he thinks is the best comapred to what another man says he feeds his dogs with doesnt mean he gives a shit about what the other guy feeds , but he posts what he thinks is a good feed becasue he thinks it is , just like i posted about what i think is correct versus incorrect on this thread , that doesnt mean i care whether gary or any other breeder continually breeds a defect into their line or not, because just like the guy who uses what he thinks is a good feed and posts it on here its just another opinion for others whether emotionally attached to a particular line or dogman or not to take or leave as they like , im would hope theyb wouldnt continue doing it but thats upto them, just like im sure for you jack when you put out your info on meds and other very usefull info , you would like to think that some or maybe all who read it would gain some benefit from that info, but i bet you dont loose sleep over whether they take it on board or not, and i dont loose any thinking about what any other breeder is doing good or bad breeding practice, but just like you and me and thousands maybe millions of others out there who post on all subjects we do post it not becasue we want to meddle in what others are doing as you said , but because i like you and others tell it like we see it and thats it , if they agree or disagree thats fine , and im sure gary will continue to breed his deaf dogs just like i wouldnt so if every post or any post that critises one way of doing something is called meddling ,then every post could be considered meddliling, be it what we feed to how we house and breed our dogs to how we trian them etc etc etc , SO i will say it just to be clear , i DONT GIVE A FLYING RATS BEHIND IF ANYONE AGREES OR DISAGREES WITH MY OPINIONS AND I DONT CARE SO PLEASE DONT TRY TO SAY IM MEDDLING BY POINTING OUT WHAT I FEEL IS NOT IN THE INSTANCE OF CONTINUALLY BREEDING DEFECTIVE DOGS AS DEFINED BY YOU ALSO JACK A GOOD WAY OF BREEDING be it by gary hammonds or anyone else .

I hope jack that if i post on other sujects or even start a thread on a suject like fake peds , that i will also not be called meddling by you , if as in the case of of a dog like tombstone who is in the peds of your foundation dogs ,you would like to know what is probalby the true ped of the dog and not the one put out on him, i would hope you would like many others would like to look at that, and again take it or leave it with the other info provide to support the true ped theory , rather than call it meddling .

[No Quarter Kennel]

Jack to begin with , you feel that i make posts that are negative, well if i like others think something is wrong then the post unfortunately will probably come over as a negative post, as i think in a previous reply to one of my posts you and me were pretty much on the same page as far as when and why any of us would breed dogs with a serious or at least relatively serious defect , so its not that i dislike gary in particular, its just that sometimes even if like NQK and others who have a vested interest in garys line as they run it themselves, they cant bring themselves to ever admit or agree that the man who they got their dogs from could ever be wrong in certain things , and that their shit doesnt stink so to speak, which is why i always say that we should all take off our rose coloured glases as we have all at one time suffered from that same thing .

So yes i may sound negative if i feel something is wrong , and breeding to a non outstanding dog as you yourself said jack not once but many times over 40 years and having a line that is known for its DEAF dogs which gary himself says he would not want to do , but infact has done ,seems to be a stupid thing to do over and over again , and if its negative or as NQK likes to say that i am trying to discredit gary , well i think gary in this instance has done that himself , and jack just because you and me have had issues its like even when im right im wrong , but your last post sounds like a lets not say anything against gary eventhough you yourself said that ONLY IF A DOG (WHICH RUFUS WASNT ) WAS AN OUTSTANDING DOG AND A ONE IN A THOUSAND WHICH YOU COULNDT FIND AGAIN WOULD YOU EVER CONSIDER BREEDING TO A DEAF DOG , so even if you want to try and make me out to only be saying it to be negative towards gary , and now try to put up percentages and say oh well its only 2% to try and make it sound like its ok , when you yourself said that in over 20 years of breeding you have never had a deaf dog , so 2% may seem low when put like that , but the point is if gary had not bred them back in as he has done and under your own rules jack of when and only when you would ever do that ,why do you think that his continually breeding in dogs that are deaf and selling deaf dogs for breeding stock to others is a good thing to do and good breeding practice because your last post was i consider negative towards me for me just saying what you yourself agree with that you would only ever maybe under extreme circumstances breed to a deaf dog , but you would rather try to put me down and say im negative .

Yes gary has been around the dogs for many years ,and i have said that he has put out good dogs like many others have done but does that mean i or anyone else is not allowed to say anything that isnt all positive if it isnt ? are we to not say that a dog has a false ped when we think or know it has ? there is no rule where we msut only post when we have something positive to say , maybe its becasue there are many of those already and i never started the breeding dogs with structural faults thread to then go on to try to discredit gary , and infact if that was my objective i could start threads all day long and use them to do just that about anyone if i was trying to do it but im not .

Yes i found it funny that he didnt notice rufus was deaf , and again you tried to make it seem less funny or stupid by making excuses for him not noticing it, but considering NQK thinks that gary ( and yes this guru type bull way of thinking about our dogmen heros that he somehow had a super perception and thats why he bred rufus a deaf dog, as he knew being so perceptive and all knowing that he would produce well ) yet he didnt even notice not after a day but in his own words A LONG TIME later that he was deaf amde me laugh.So maybe as i say when were to close to someone or attached to them we put them on a pedastal and give them qualities they maybe dont have, and i found that not noticing rufus was deaf a good example of that , but human nature doesnt allow some people to see the obvious even when they see it , thats the rose coloured glases syndrome which i myself used to suffer from but not anymore .

Jack i agree with you about why gary probably decided to breed rufus knowing he was deaf , and as you said it was because he was bred well , and i said this in previuos posts were i feel that the reason most dogmen breed their defective dogs is for that reason mostly and as i said before when you ask them why or read stories of the same they always say WELL HE WAS BRED WELL ,so i understsand that but you then go on to say oh i dont care what gary or anyone else does with there dogs , etc etc , well im sure most of us dont care about what others do with there dogs, but as this is a forum with threads on various aspects of the dogs , i assume that the forum is there for a cross section of posts of which depending on the subject matter will be more black and white and others less so , but im sure that whehter the man who posts on what dog feed he thinks is the best comapred to what another man says he feeds his dogs with doesnt mean he gives a shit about what the other guy feeds , but he posts what he thinks is a good feed becasue he thinks it is , just like i posted about what i think is correct versus incorrect on this thread , that doesnt mean i care whether gary or any other breeder continually breeds a defect into their line or not, because just like the guy who uses what he thinks is a good feed and posts it on here its just another opinion for others whether emotionally attached to a particular line or dogman or not to take or leave as they like , im would hope theyb wouldnt continue doing it but thats upto them, just like im sure for you jack when you put out your info on meds and other very usefull info , you would like to think that some or maybe all who read it would gain some benefit from that info, but i bet you dont loose sleep over whether they take it on board or not, and i dont loose any thinking about what any other breeder is doing good or bad breeding practice, but just like you and me and thousands maybe millions of others out there who post on all subjects we do post it not becasue we want to meddle in what others are doing as you said , but because i like you and others tell it like we see it and thats it , if they agree or disagree thats fine , and im sure gary will continue to breed his deaf dogs just like i wouldnt so if every post or any post that critises one way of doing something is called meddling ,then every post could be considered meddliling, be it what we feed to how we house and breed our dogs to how we trian them etc etc etc , SO i will say it just to be clear , i DONT GIVE A FLYING RATS BEHIND IF ANYONE AGREES OR DISAGREES WITH MY OPINIONS AND I DONT CARE SO PLEASE DONT TRY TO SAY IM MEDDLING BY POINTING OUT WHAT I FEEL IS NOT IN THE INSTANCE OF CONTINUALLY BREEDING DEFECTIVE DOGS AS DEFINED BY YOU ALSO JACK A GOOD WAY OF BREEDING be it by gary hammonds or anyone else .

I hope jack that if i post on other sujects or even start a thread on a suject like fake peds , that i will also not be called meddling by you , if as in the case of of a dog like tombstone who is in the peds of your foundation dogs ,you would like to know what is probalby the true ped of the dog and not the one put out on him, i would hope you would like many others would like to look at that, and again take it or leave it with the other info provide to support the true ped theory , rather than call it meddling .

Seriously, I don't even wear colored glasses for loved ones. I don't for anyone or anything.
I would greatly appreciate it if you would leave my name completely out of anything you want to discuss on this forum as I could NOT, in anyway shape or form, care any less about you, your opinions or anything related to you.

Have a wonderful Christmas