Hi jack , i think i answered your questions about my reasons, and i also said in my psots have said that limey and any other person can ask what they like for a stud fee, but when as in the case of limeys its seems an unreasonably high amount for an as yet un known perfomer /producer if at all outside of limeys yard ,then i feel it does make a hell of a difference to any stud fee asked for.Originally Posted by CA Jack
Hi Project X;
Honestly, I don't need you to recapitulate "what the thread is about" for me
You may think your going on-and-on-and-on about the cost of Limey's stud is "reasonable," but IMO it would be more reasonable just to move on and not pay for something you think is too high.
You sound more hostile than reasonable.
I find it amusing that you didn't answer my question, yet you demand that Limey answer yours
I am defending Limey's position mainly because I think your attack is hostile and needless.
Again, if you don't like Limey's price, simply don't pay for it. That is what rational, reasonable people do. Me, I see studs all the time that have shitty structure, pedigrees I would never have bred, possess traits I would never want to have, with splayed feet, tongues hanging out like they're going to collapse from exhaustion from just standing there, and I don't write big long posts about "why" I would never pay to breed to that POS. Instead, I just move on to something else.
I also see stud dogs that look interesting, but never bother to breed to them. Mostly because I am happy with what I have (or had, back when I was breeding dogs).
Your greatest blunder in thinking is the belief that Limey's dog is "unproven." I have heard nimrods tell this same thing to me about "my" studs, too, back when I was breeding dogs. I have heard so many people make comments on something that they have never seen go with "their" eyes ... and these idiots believe that their eyes are ALL eyes ... but they're not. They think because "they" haven't seen something go, that means that "I" haven't either. I mean, they really think that I am breeding something "unproven" ... just because it hasn't been proven "to them." As if I give a shit about "them" in my decision-making. Time and again, I have heard the same shit spewed at me, by people whose dogs (and opinions on dogs) couldn't kiss my ass ... and these people likewise operate under the insanity that just because "they" don't know how good my dog is somehow means I don't know how good my dog is
The real truth is you have no freaking idea how good Limey's dog is, or isn't. Period.
Maybe this dog proved a shitload to Limey. Maybe this dog is the best damned dog he's ever seen in his life, and he is pricing it accordingly.
Or maybe the dog is an untouched wonder with no ability. I don't know. You don't know.
But at the end of the day, the word "proven" is a meaningless word in your context. I could go on for pages about dogs mine have faced that were "proven" ... "proven fastlane winners" from "proven ROM" producers ... and yet my dogs whipped their ass, and stopped these "great proven dogs" cold ... all the while my dogs were out of studs and bitches that "no one else" has seen but me. So, really, all of that so-called "proof" doesn't mean shit.
You a$$ume incorrectly.
I don't care what anyone else charges for a stud fee.
I will never breed to anyone else's studs, but my own. The only exception would be to a trusted dogman-friend, whose dog I had seen with my own eyes, and/or whose opinion on a dog I respected. And I would invariably be offered to breed to the dog for free. But I would still rather breed to my own stud dog 99x out of 100.
You have a serious boundary disorder. You not only think Limey should "do as you do," you now think that I should pick my fights "as you would" too. This is a recurring insanity on your part, thinking that everyone else should "do as you do," so let me clarify two things for you:
1) I don't care what "you" do; I will fight in whatever battles I choose and I don't need your permission to enter in to any fray, ever.
2) Limey doesn't care about what "you" think stud fees will be either. He has the right to charge what he wants on stud services to his stud, period.
In the end, I will agree that all of your "reasons" for stud fees being a certain price ARE reasons ... but they are only reasons for YOU not to breed to Limey's stud dog. Nothing more. If someone is into Limey's bloodline, and trusts his opinion on a dog, then they will breed to the dog. And guess what? Limey can also choose to lower his fee for the right person too.
Or, he may never get a single person to pay the money and therefore will never breed outside his yard.
But NONE of this has anything to do with you or your opinion. The only way it affects you is if you let it.
If you charge what you want for your studs, and pay only what you're willing to pay for an outside stud, you will have a much healthier outlook than lamenting page-after-page over some stud whose price point is higher than what you want to pay.
Jack
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I dont disagree with you that a dog can be the best performer producer in the world , but if limeys was either , as in most cases he would make a point of telling it as is his stlye to do, as he is never shy in telling us of his dogs acomplishments and the only acopmlishment he said about his kingpin dog in his ad was that gary hammonds said hes the best looking dog hes seen in 10 years , so it would seem that any acomplishments are only know inside his own yard if any.
I thought that you like myself and many others who over the years have talked to other men and friends about dogs, when you have what could be described as a high dollar stud fee or even high dollar pups which as in limeys stud are outside the normal stud fees for most dogs and especially as yet un proven dogs , at least to the outside world , and if your clients are the outside world , well then i think they deserve an answer to the question if the price seems high for the accomplishments of any given stud dog pup or brood bitch without a track record that is know outside of the yard it came from, as its easy to say what you like and claim what you like in your own back yard , not so easy when you play outside so it gets seen by at least a few others who arent all your friends.
Jack like you said yourself in most cases you would not breed outside your own yard, but if you did im sure regardless of the stud fee , but especially if it was a reasonably high one for what i regard in limeys kingpin as an unknown quantity yet, then you would probalby ask yourself if not the owner , why is the price so high on the dog , and most owners might tell you something you dont know that answers that question for you, but only if they open their mouth and actually tell you .
If the stud dog is a known performer/producer, then i feel like most people , that man can ask what he likes, and we may even justify to ourselves a $5000 stud fee if the dog has been there done it seen it etc , but i cant think of many top dogs whos stud fee would surpass limeys kingpin in cost even on the basic stud fee alone , so althoguh you can never gurantee what you will get for sure from either a dog of unknown potential or from one who has a track record in one or both departments, if like most people looking for a studdog had to pay top dollar for an unknown or known performing /producing dog and still stay within a bloodline that fit their ideals , im sure most would go for the known dog, as this is common sense.
Jack i also dont expect anyone to do what i do , i merely said that you will never find me crying to mods or you about boo hoo someone is asking me questions i cant answer please help boo hoo , i just said that i would want to fight my own corner , especially if i felt strongly about my bloodline i would surley want to give the person asking what i feel was a perfectly reasonable question to ask an answer ,and im sure if anyone asked you why you believed your dogs had the value you put on them , you would have an answer which im sure would consist of an answer which leaves them regardless of whehter they buy or not form you, with something to think about for the future, rather than saying nothing you may try to educate them as to why .
By the way you did tell me that if i wanted to say anything about limeys ad to start a thread in the genral forum and that there i could say what i liked , which i have , infact on the thread limey started , but know you seem to feel that even this is to much for poor limey to handle , so are we to believe that even a reasonable debate with no offensive name calling as by myself regarding this thread or any others were god forbid someone might ask i perfectly normal question is just to harsh or shall we just say that limey just like on his own forum decides what people can say as long as he likes it and doesnt make him feel nervous ? i for one hope that this is not the case as unless someone is abusing another member , and that a question is asked, that you of all people jack would not intervene in such an obviously biased way towards limey , in a forum which we all hope to learn from as its run by you jack, would be more biased towards understanding than banning people from feeling free to say what they feel , and let other members tell them whether they agree or disagree in some or all parts of their argument.
Just one last thing jack you say im being hostile towards limey ,but my language is calm and reasoned , whether you or others agree or disagree with my comments in this thread , i have not been agressive or hostile , but pardon me for saying so but you attack me and the language or temrinolgy you use , seems like your being pretty aggresive and attacking me for my posts , anyone would think limey owned this forum also which i hope to god he doesnt as that would mean just one view would be allowed on most things his view .
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