stud dogs brood bitches and dog prizes in general. and the ""Justification"" in

[Officially Retired]

Hi jack , this thread is about the cost of stud fees and the justification of them , or at least the discussion as to what is expected from prospective stud dogs etc and i think my posts about the cost in the case of limeys kingpin is a reasonable one ,given not just the stud fee but the very high extra costs that would be incurred going forward with it.

Hi Project X;

Honestly, I don't need you to recapitulate "what the thread is about" for me

You may think your going on-and-on-and-on about the cost of Limey's stud is "reasonable," but IMO it would be more reasonable just to move on and not pay for something you think is too high.

You sound more hostile than reasonable.

You ask me what do i care what limey does , and how does it affect me , which seems to me to be a defense of limey and i must assume that you feel that his stud fee and overall cost to breed to his dog which has no record in any department as yet is a fair and normal cost ,and requires no one asking limey or any other stud dog owner who expects any prospective taker of a high stud fee to their expensive stud dog to ever ask them why they are asking such a high stud fee comapred to the normal fees that i have stated before in other posts of between $500 to$1500 comapred to limeys base stud fee of $2.700 plus the extra costs , especially for a dog that has yet to prove itself in any way , and that you feel my question as to why he feels the stud fee and extra costs associated with it are questions that should never be asked by anyone and to just be accepted without question ,which would seem a foolish thing to do in any walk of life when making a purchase including the dogs.

I find it amusing that you didn't answer my question, yet you demand that Limey answer yours

I am defending Limey's position mainly because I think your attack is hostile and needless.

Again, if you don't like Limey's price, simply don't pay for it. That is what rational, reasonable people do. Me, I see studs all the time that have shitty structure, pedigrees I would never have bred, possess traits I would never want to have, with splayed feet, tongues hanging out like they're going to collapse from exhaustion from just standing there, and I don't write big long posts about "why" I would never pay to breed to that POS. Instead, I just move on to something else.

I also see stud dogs that look interesting, but never bother to breed to them. Mostly because I am happy with what I have (or had, back when I was breeding dogs).

Your greatest blunder in thinking is the belief that Limey's dog is "unproven." I have heard nimrods tell this same thing to me about "my" studs, too, back when I was breeding dogs. I have heard so many people make comments on something that they have never seen go with "their" eyes ... and these idiots believe that their eyes are ALL eyes ... but they're not. They think because "they" haven't seen something go, that means that "I" haven't either. I mean, they really think that I am breeding something "unproven" ... just because it hasn't been proven "to them." As if I give a shit about "them" in my decision-making. Time and again, I have heard the same shit spewed at me, by people whose dogs (and opinions on dogs) couldn't kiss my ass ... and these people likewise operate under the insanity that just because "they" don't know how good my dog is somehow means I don't know how good my dog is

The real truth is you have no freaking idea how good Limey's dog is, or isn't. Period.
Maybe this dog proved a shitload to Limey. Maybe this dog is the best damned dog he's ever seen in his life, and he is pricing it accordingly.
Or maybe the dog is an untouched wonder with no ability. I don't know. You don't know.

But at the end of the day, the word "proven" is a meaningless word in your context. I could go on for pages about dogs mine have faced that were "proven" ... "proven fastlane winners" from "proven ROM" producers ... and yet my dogs whipped their ass, and stopped these "great proven dogs" cold ... all the while my dogs were out of studs and bitches that "no one else" has seen but me. So, really, all of that so-called "proof" doesn't mean shit.

I hope i have assumed incorrectly in your feeling that way , as i would have though that you of all people would also want to have some balance in this field of stud fees and costs, and like any other product we can buy , the costs are normally associsted with a products quality , and in the case of bulldogs that normally means a stud fee is relative to what the stud dog has done in either of the two fields we tend to feel merits some acknowledgement in the game , of which as far as i can see and unless limey tells us otherwise his dog has yet to achieve anything in either of those two fields as yet to merit even the normal range top end stud fee of $1500 let alone $2.700 plus the extras . Yes he can ask what he likes , and maybe instead of defending him he should maybe defend himself if you or he feel my question is so unfair on him ,in so far as it would be of interest to know why he feels his dog and the very high overal cost to take a breeding to his dog is somnething we should be thinking about doing , rather than keeping quiet ,which seems to me to say that he cant really give an answer as to why the cost should be so high apart form the fact that it is very high and just keep quiet and dont ask awkward questions.

You a$$ume incorrectly.

I don't care what anyone else charges for a stud fee.

I will never breed to anyone else's studs, but my own. The only exception would be to a trusted dogman-friend, whose dog I had seen with my own eyes, and/or whose opinion on a dog I respected. And I would invariably be offered to breed to the dog for free. But I would still rather breed to my own stud dog 99x out of 100.

I myself jack like to fight my own battles ,and you will never find me pm ing you to complain about another member who posts or says very normal things about me , and asking you to do sometihng about it, as some people have a name for that already on other forums , so much so that they have been booted out of them for always crying to the mods about other people as they cant answer basic questions when put to them, and the forums just had enough of that guy and told him to go away and grow some balls instead of always crying to them to help him, i will never do that and as i say maybe limey should give us an insight into the stud fee for his dog, maybe we can understand why , rather than have you defend him and ask me the questions you asked me, i think maybe asking limey the same questions i asked him and others have would have made more sense given the extreme cost anyone would have had to incurr taking a breeding to his dog comapred to other much more acknowleged dogs at a much lower cost in stud fee alone , would have been a question lots of us would like to,know. Had he asked a stud fee within the normal range , then i would never have said a word ,albeit still very costly as to the extra costs , but at least it would have been a stud fee with reasonable bounds ,which quite frankly his is not at the moment and im surprised you dont feel it in some way needs some kind of explanation on limeys part , but you ask me something about why im asking limey about his stud fee, mmm doesnt seem to make sense to me unless your taking sides ,which im sure your not jack, as in the interests of knowledge an answer from limey himself would im sure enlighten us all in one way or another .

You have a serious boundary disorder. You not only think Limey should "do as you do," you now think that I should pick my fights "as you would" too. This is a recurring insanity on your part, thinking that everyone else should "do as you do," so let me clarify two things for you:

1) I don't care what "you" do; I will fight in whatever battles I choose and I don't need your permission to enter in to any fray, ever.
2) Limey doesn't care about what "you" think stud fees will be either. He has the right to charge what he wants on stud services to his stud, period.

In the end, I will agree that all of your "reasons" for stud fees being a certain price ARE reasons ... but they are only reasons for YOU not to breed to Limey's stud dog. Nothing more. If someone is into Limey's bloodline, and trusts his opinion on a dog, then they will breed to the dog. And guess what? Limey can also choose to lower his fee for the right person too.

Or, everyone may agree with you, and Limey may never get a single person to pay the money, and therefore he will never breed outside his yard.

But NONE of this has anything to do with you or your opinion. The only way it affects you is if you let it.

If you charge what you want for your studs, and pay only what you're willing to pay for an outside stud, you will have a much healthier outlook than lamenting page-after-page over some stud whose price point is higher than what you want to pay.

Jack

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