levels of gameness.

[EWO]

It is as individual as anything in these dogs. No two dogs are alike. I have often wondered how many dogs labelled a cur and put down yesterday could have won today. That 16 month old may show game today and at two years old be a more mature dog, maybe deeper game and over all better. Or, he could have very well shot his wad at 16 months and decide to pack it at 2 years old. There are only a handful of statements in these dogs that ring true across the board and one is "only time will tell".
One of my personal favorites was a bolio/eli male I had that just absolutely loved to be in the mix. Winning or losing, top or bottom, as long as he had a hold life was just grand. I am not sure if this is a level, or an accurate description, but he was plain crazy game/stupid game. He could bite shit in half but would give up ten holds to get one. His tail wagged the entire time and I swear at times he had a smile on his face. I am not sure if he thought he was game or thought he was winning or really even cared. He just wanted to be involved but had no real agenda for being there except just being there. Crazy game or stupid game if that makes sense. EWO

So what do you think about gameness related to maturity?

Would a 16 month old fully started dog show the same (level of) gameness as the same dog 2 years later in the same situation?

[TFX]

It is as individual as anything in these dogs. No two dogs are alike. I have often wondered how many dogs labelled a cur and put down yesterday could have won today. That 16 month old may show game today and at two years old be a more mature dog, maybe deeper game and over all better. Or, he could have very well shot his wad at 16 months and decide to pack it at 2 years old.. EWO

Good point. We had a 2X winner many years ago. He won is first in a little under an hour, his second in 1:36, in a very tough deal, and then lost his championship bid to CH Tweaker in less than :50. The dog had shown much more gameness in the past not only in time, but fatigue, punishment, pretty much every aspect of being down than he showed in his loss. After he quit in that show, the dog was kept around to evaluate again. The next time, he didn't even last :30. It was like he was all used up. I think quitting broke the dog down spiritually and emotionally.

There's no exact science to this stuff, which is why the ones who consistently show they won't quit are very special dogs regardless of how they are bred. Many of them won't be able to produce that same package themselves with regularity, but they represent the breed well as individuals, and I just love a good, game dog.

[skipper]

Good point. We had a 2X winner many years ago. He won is first in a little under an hour, his second in 1:36, in a very tough deal, and then lost his championship bid to CH Tweaker in less than :50. The dog had shown much more gameness in the past not only in time, but fatigue, punishment, pretty much every aspect of being down than he showed in his loss. After he quit in that show, the dog was kept around to evaluate again. The next time, he didn't even last :30. It was like he was all used up. I think quitting broke the dog down spiritually and emotionally.

There's no exact science to this stuff, which is why the ones who consistently show they won't quit are very special dogs regardless of how they are bred. Many of them won't be able to produce that same package themselves with regularity, but they represent the breed well as individuals, and I just love a good, game dog.

This is what we all have to remember. Dogs aren't machines, and i think there is only so much a dog can handle. What I've noticed is that a dog is only worth what he did last time you looked at him. What if a dog gave you all his got in an outing. Do you really need to have that dog prove that again? There are many examples were dogs that showed deep gameness one time are broken psychological to the next and leaves you standing scratching your head.
Dogs would be easy if there was a right or wrong way in this.. Thank god it ain't...

[No Quarter Kennel]

Good point. We had a 2X winner many years ago. He won is first in a little under an hour, his second in 1:36, in a very tough deal, and then lost his championship bid to CH Tweaker in less than :50. The dog had shown much more gameness in the past not only in time, but fatigue, punishment, pretty much every aspect of being down than he showed in his loss. After he quit in that show, the dog was kept around to evaluate again. The next time, he didn't even last :30. It was like he was all used up. I think quitting broke the dog down spiritually and emotionally.

There's no exact science to this stuff, which is why the ones who consistently show they won't quit are very special dogs regardless of how they are bred. Many of them won't be able to produce that same package themselves with regularity, but they represent the breed well as individuals, and I just love a good, game dog.

Danny Burton, "I'd rather take a 2-3 year old dog out than a 3 time winner any day. You gotta realize. Every time a dog goes out, it's like he's getting bullet wounds. How the hell would you feel about doing something this hard after surviving so many bullet wounds in your life"

There is a wear and tear factor that has to be considered and some have already said it here. Once one has proven to you, what you wanted to know - when is this, in and of its self, enough? Tough one.