Well, let's pretend for a moment that gameness is "absolute" (which it isn't), but to say talent doesn't matter is wrong IMO.

I have always selected for extreme gameness in my breeding choices (Hammer, the Hollingsworth dogs, No Regrets, etc.) ... but only when I also selected for a winning style did my win/loss record as a breeder begin to skyrocket.

Selecting for "gameness only" ... my win record for the first couple of years was just at 57% ...

When I begin to put some combat theory into the mix, and specifically select for a controlling head style, that would pace itself, then my record quickly went up over 75% ... and hasn't been below 80%, in any year, for well over 15 years now.

So Talent is definitely important too.

People who only breed to dogs they beat the hell out of, that "live and scratch" through their ordeals, will NEVER have a record much over 50%, I don't believe.