Wacc, while I think where dogs come from initially may have some relevant meaning, how the end up years down the road (better or worse) is solely dependent on the people with those dogs and working them. I'm sure there are plenty of dogs all over the world that weren't up to ANYONE'S standards when sold, but later on through dedication and smart breeding, the new owners made those dogs better. If the dogs on the west coast are still successful from those men, it isn't because of those men. It is because of the owners NOW and their ability to continue to improve upon what they originally bought. Because Voyles got Double Trouble and Sexy from Fletcher in the 80s doesn't mean those dogs competed at the level they did, and do now, because they came from him. They did that due to what Voyles bred, schooled, and put out there over the decades since then. I can list names of men that have sent dogs all over the world, and while the initial success is due to them most of the time, the continuing success isn't.