Quote Originally Posted by projectx View Post
Randy i dont think anyone is saying that we have to belive anyone in particular blindly , but after my reply to your post which i thought was a reasonable one ,asking you and making some reasonable points ,some in agreement and some not so, that rather than come in on a thread and make some statments about the sujbect and throw a few stories of your own in there about other possiblilties which is fine ,but to not want to have a debate about it but and to just have to believe exactly what you say or your not playing is wrong ,and i agree with you that 40 years on it isnt going to change the world ,whehter floyd lied about billy and eli, or what dog quit, etc , but dont you think it would be better to in someway try to make sense of these things were and when we can , rather than jsut avoid them as if they never happend .

Maybe you dont want to admit that its more than likely floyd was lying about billy ,based on the timeline alone regardless of any hearsay or other factors includng mayifelds theory, but you are a friend of floyds and not really mayfields friend , so i understand you not wanting to take sides, but this i think is the probelm we have with the dogs, everyone would rather keep quiet, when actually it would benefit the breed and the men whos reputation has either been made better or in mayfields case called him crazy for it, when infact randy i think it would be fair to give him the credit for at least making the breeding that produced eli and not floyd as that isnt right whosevers friend you or i am its still wrong and the peds should reflect it,especially when more than a serious doubt exisits as in blind billys case ,which would also mean eli is not bred as pedigreed and i know if that was my friend or family memebr that they called mad and jealous , i would want that put right wouldnt you randy.
I think you are right, I don’t see the harm in talking about it and comparing what folks know. I was told once you find the key to unlock Pandora’s box you will probably end up wishing you didn’t. We know one thing for certain, aint no difference in men of yesterday compared to men of today. They all lie, some folks will lie and some folks will swear by that lie. I think Mountain man was one of if not the only to publicly state they would keep a dog that quit and just try him another day.

Project I think the theory of Eli and how he came about is valid, I've been honored to be able to speak to a few men that were around back then. Yes they all agree that Eli was off Ch Cry Baby, but at that is where Mayfield's credit for Eli just about stops. He did the litter that produced him, but it was Mr. Clemmons who took his gyp and bred to Eli to make him now famous after his 3 famous children. It was Floyd's work after those kids and their kids and so on that made Eli as famous as he is now. Folks that seen Eli don’t speak highly of him at all, they say he was pretty much average and was nothing to speak of until his kids hit the scene. That's where his fame took off.

I know a few guys who used some of the Mayfield blood and 20 years ago they had some great success but even those guys now with their dogs which still have some Mayfield blood in it have minimized using it. When I ask a friend who has Mayfield dogs for over 20 years back to the Sunshine stuff and stuff dome from Mr. Andress and others, about Maverick or Banjo or any other dog being Mayfield bred and he said simply from his experiences with the lines for 2 decades he can't see any similarities. He said especially with the Maverick dogs because everything about them is different from their change of build to their strengths and weaknesses. I've had some Maverick dogs for some time and can't see it either. One thing about his Mayfield dogs that have remained the same is their ability to bite (which he doesn’t breed for as primary) but also their ability to finish and want to finish. His dogs have stayed true to that but that's just his experiences. Also his dogs body style has been the same, not midget but short dogs with thick structure and great natural strength and wind. Where the maverick dogs I've had and the dogs he has had, have been longer dogs with more leg more head style or wrestling types of dogs, not with a bunch of mouth. Which a lot depended on what the bottom of it was, but his Mayfield dogs have been power dogs with mouth and want to finish.

Again could be just what he got and what they were able to produce. I know with a few of his associates they also got the same style of dogs and I seen that on 3 different yards from the Midwest to the South. You could be absolutely correct with your theory and could be absolutely wrong, but we can give the nod for all those around saying Eli was off Cry Baby but that's not where all his fame came from. So what exactly credit is Mayfield missing that he deserves? Eli became the man when his 3 kids were seen as badass dogs and then Ch Tommy and some other dogs. They were reminiscent of the Henry dogs that Tudor and others had success with those black powerhouses.