View Poll Results: Should Showing EXTREME GAMENESS qualify a dog for DOY status?

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  • YES: Gameness is the essence of the breed, and dogs who show it to the extreme are deserving.

    47 55.29%

  • NO: The DOY title should only be about performance.

    38 44.71%
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Thread: Should Showing EXTREME GAMENESS be Part of DOY Candidacy?

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  1. 01-19-2015, 05:03 PM #1
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    Question

    Yep.

    All the hardware in the world isn't worth much if there's no will to use it.

    I understand the premise of elite dogs sometimes never being tested ... and how DOY is more about the "most decorated" dog versus the gamest.

    Still what turns a fighter from "front runner" to "legend" is having to display depth of heart in the trenches.

    We all knew Ali was great, talent-wise, but it was only through his life & death wars with Frazier/Foreman, etc. that Ali earned his immortality.

    If you watch the Ali/Frazier wars, and compare them to today's heavyweights, makes you want to shut your tv off to today's fighters ... after you've seen that level of heavyweight matchup.

    Buck had his legendary war ... Jeep had his legendary war ... and the camp with Titere has gone to war ... but it seems like Titere is just too good for what's out there for there to be the same kind of war.

    Not trying to take away from Titere at all (far from it, he has my vote) ... but (conceptually) I am raising the question of shouldn't a fighter have to overcome extreme adversity ... in a legendary fight at some point ... to become a legend ... or are some dogs just so good that no one can truly check their oil?

    Jack
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  2. 01-19-2015, 05:56 PM #2
    MISTER
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    Quote Originally Posted by CA Jack View Post
    Yep.

    All the hardware in the world isn't worth much if there's no will to use it.

    I understand the premise of elite dogs sometimes never being tested ... and how DOY is more about the "most decorated" dog versus the gamest.

    Still what turns a fighter from "front runner" to "legend" is having to display depth of heart in the trenches.

    We all knew Ali was great, talent-wise, but it was only through his life & death wars with Frazier/Foreman, etc. that Ali earned his immortality.

    If you watch the Ali/Frazier wars, and compare them to today's heavyweights, makes you want to shut your tv off to today's fighters ... after you've seen that level of heavyweight matchup.

    Buck had his legendary war ... Jeep had his legendary war ... and the camp with Titere has gone to war ... but it seems like Titere is just too good for what's out there for there to be the same kind of war.

    Not trying to take away from Titere at all (far from it, he has my vote) ... but (conceptually) I am raising the question of shouldn't a fighter have to overcome extreme adversity ... in a legendary fight at some point ... to become a legend ... or are some dogs just so good that no one can truly check their oil?

    Jack

    Check that Thrilla In Manila my friend Ali quit on his stool. Eddie Futch picked Frazier up being Frazier good eye was closed which rendered him blind. All Frazier had to do was answer the bell which he wanted too... Sorry for getting off topic lol.

    Hey Jack I believe some are just that good where they never get tested. Here's one for ya, would CH Bad Rosemary would've gotten challenged if Ablizin didn't bring her out in horrible shape? I think not nd feel the same bout titere to find out if he's game he'd have to be handicapped which nobody in their right mind would do...
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  3. 01-19-2015, 06:41 PM #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by MISTER View Post
    Check that Thrilla In Manila my friend Ali quit on his stool. Eddie Futch picked Frazier up being Frazier good eye was closed which rendered him blind. All Frazier had to do was answer the bell which he wanted too... Sorry for getting off topic lol.

    Hey Jack I believe some are just that good where they never get tested. Here's one for ya, would CH Bad Rosemary would've gotten challenged if Ablizin didn't bring her out in horrible shape? I think not nd feel the same bout titere to find out if he's game he'd have to be handicapped which nobody in their right mind would do...
    Sorry to continue the digression ... thought Ali wanted to quit against Henry Cooper, for shit being in his eye.

    Do not remember Ali quitting on the Thrilla ...

    EDIT: You were right ... Dundee had to "bump him with his leg"
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  4. 01-19-2015, 10:29 PM #4
    MWA
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    Quote Originally Posted by CA Jack View Post
    Yep.

    All the hardware in the world isn't worth much if there's no will to use it.

    I understand the premise of elite dogs sometimes never being tested ... and how DOY is more about the "most decorated" dog versus the gamest.

    Still what turns a fighter from "front runner" to "legend" is having to display depth of heart in the trenches.

    We all knew Ali was great, talent-wise, but it was only through his life & death wars with Frazier/Foreman, etc. that Ali earned his immortality.

    If you watch the Ali/Frazier wars, and compare them to today's heavyweights, makes you want to shut your tv off to today's fighters ... after you've seen that level of heavyweight matchup.

    Buck had his legendary war ... Jeep had his legendary war ... and the camp with Titere has gone to war ... but it seems like Titere is just too good for what's out there for there to be the same kind of war.

    Not trying to take away from Titere at all (far from it, he has my vote) ... but (conceptually) I am raising the question of shouldn't a fighter have to overcome extreme adversity ... in a legendary fight at some point ... to become a legend ... or are some dogs just so good that no one can truly check their oil?

    Jack
    Ali wasn't game like smoking joe, he was ready to quit. And would have quit that fight had Joes corner not threw in the towel. However it was one hell've battle.

    GLOBAL
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  5. 01-20-2015, 07:48 AM #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by MWA View Post
    Ali wasn't game like smoking joe, he was ready to quit. And would have quit that fight had Joes corner not threw in the towel. However it was one hell've battle.

    GLOBAL

    It would be hard for any fighter to be gamer than Frazier.

    He basically committed suicide when he faced Foremen the first time, and put that kind of relentless pressure on a devastating puncher like that ... although it looked like he almost turned and tried to jump for a split second there after like his 5th knockdown (was hard to tell if he had his faculties or not).

    On the second fight, Frazier tried to be cute (turned boxer) ... he had enough of pressure-fighting Foremen ... and, though he gave a good effort and made it to Round 5, when he got floored again and Foreman started finding him, he sure wasn't protesting that stoppage

    Jack
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  6. 01-20-2015, 08:10 AM #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by CA Jack View Post
    It would be hard for any fighter to be gamer than Frazier.

    He basically committed suicide when he faced Foremen the first time, and put that kind of relentless pressure on a devastating puncher like that ... although it looked like he almost turned and tried to jump for a split second there after like his 5th knockdown (was hard to tell if he had his faculties or not).

    On the second fight, Frazier tried to be cute (turned boxer) ... he had enough of pressure-fighting Foremen ... and, though he gave a good effort and made it to Round 5, when he got floored again and Foreman started finding him, he sure wasn't protesting that stoppage

    Jack
    That's when fighters were fighters, To be the best you had to beat the best. Frazier didn't have to fight Ali the first time as Ali was still exiled from boxing. Frazier helped Ali get his license back to fight him to prove he deserved the crown. It's not like that anymore in boxing or dogs, folks skirt around quality opposition to maintain their status that's why the dogs on the PBB DOY list are so respected along with their camps, they go after the best to prove they're the best. Even the camps and dogs who came up short have the upmost respect for giving it an honest go
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  7. 01-19-2015, 05:06 PM #7
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    Damn it's neck-and-neck ...

    32 Yes
    34 No

    This is the closest Poll I have ever run ...

    Jack
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  8. 01-20-2015, 06:35 AM #8
    MISTER
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    I must admit I really enjoy these threads. Folks can disagree without it becoming a pissing war, I'VE FOUND MY NEW HOME LOL
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  9. 01-20-2015, 07:50 AM #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by MISTER View Post
    I must admit I really enjoy these threads. Folks can disagree without it becoming a pissing war, I'VE FOUND MY NEW HOME LOL
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  10. 01-20-2015, 08:16 AM #10
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    Very well said. These guys truly were fighters.

    Was watching both Frazier/Foreman fights again, and the way they were seriously trying to KO each other (not "last the round" and "win on points") made me miss those days of boxing.

    Boxing has no sense of history anymore. It's no longer about boxers fighting for the prestigious 8 titles ... it's 60 different titles, 5 different divisions, with every boxer thinking "he" is the big deal rather than the title.

    Scroll back and watch Sugar Ray Robinson, the work ethic and level of comp, and boxing has lost anything close to that now.

    They fought for a living ... multiple times every year ... they didn't only fight once/twice per year ...

    Jack
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