can't really top or add to what jack said, but I do agree 100% with Jack's perspective on this one.
The guy who coldly goes through em and only wants the best?
The guy who really tries to bring out the best in each dog?
can't really top or add to what jack said, but I do agree 100% with Jack's perspective on this one.
We should take into consideration that some of us aren't breeders. I probably would've culled a bitch like awesome baby for being cold unless she were the last of a line or something like that. I can house 8 dogs at a time and i only keep one or two brood dogs. I like those dogs to be good dogs that fit my likings. Fully aware that cold dogs can produce especially when bred a certain way. I have no own bloodline and im not really interested in building one either. I make breedings to, but one every 3 years or so. I would love to have a good breeder send me dogs to work, not having to focus anything on breeding dogs. Therefore i might cull a potential producer once in a while, but my situation is what it is. Working dogs is what i love. Not breeding them.
I like to add that i don't like to cull a game plug and that im not a world beater in any way.
Originally Posted by skipper
I hear what you're saying. This is why (unless the dog is an ill-bred, no-talent cur), selling them or giving them away is a better option than culling.
Personally, I believe most people should NOT breed dogs, period, because they don't understand genetics and how to manage them. Essentially, most people view breeding dogs as a "crapshoot," where they're basically randomly mixing lines "to see what they get," rather than actually having a gameplan, zeroing-in on a small, high-quality gene pool, and thus ensuring what they get
If I killed everything I bred that didn't suit me, ability-wise, then a lot of great dogs and producers would never have existed, including Diamond Girl, Chase/Chita, etc., who are behind some of the best and most consistent dogs down from my bloodline.
I don't think anyone, who actually has bred a number of good/great dogs, agrees with killing game plugs.
In fact, many truly experienced breeders I have spoken with over the years almost expect the game plug littermate to outproduce its more talented sibling ... because their "hindsight" experience shows this happens quite often.
Jack
I'm probably one of them. haha
Sometimes people with small yards shoot themselves in the foot by culling so ruthlessly.
It is almost like they get brainwashed into the genre of "kill anything that can't be shown," which is ultimately a flawed way to do things.
Suppose some "hard culler" does that, and their great Champion they kept dies DG for his 5th ... or gets put down in a raid ... or gets stolen, etc. ... and they killed off all the other siblings? What then? Start all over with new blood?
By contrast, if that dogman had placed the game bum with a friend or family member (or sold it to a beginner), he would still have access to his good blood ... while if he killed off the others he would have none of it.
People who "assume" what they keep will "always be there" often regret their foolishness and find themselves in a bad spot ... while those who place stores of their blood in other locations can always fall back on 2 important things: (1) they can still have access to their blood if they lose the better brother, and/or (2) they can still have access to their blood if they find the game bum is the better producer
In a nutshell, "Waste Not, Want Not," as the saying goes ...
Jack
Sometimes people with small yards shoot themselves in the foot by culling so ruthlessly.
It is almost like they get brainwashed into the genre of "kill anything that can't be shown," which is ultimately a flawed way to do things.
Suppose some "hard culler" does that, and their great Champion they kept dies DG for his 5th ... or gets put down in a raid ... or gets stolen, etc. ... and they killed off all the other siblings? What then? Start all over with new blood?
By contrast, if that dogman had placed the game bum with a friend or family member (or sold it to a beginner), he would still have access to his good blood ... while if he killed off the others he would have none of it.
People who "assume" what they keep will "always be there" often regret their foolishness and find themselves in a bad spot ... while those who place stores of their blood in other locations can always fall back on 2 important things: (1) they can still have access to their blood if they lose the better brother, and/or (2) they can still have access to their blood if they find the game bum is the better producer
In a nutshell, "Waste Not, Want Not," as the saying goes ...
Jack
lol If you make a habit.of breeding hounds.like awesome baby your.program will follow her and what's behind her. she has had a ton of ones like her and some that.take her lineage. so jack what endearing qualities and or traits that she herself.possessed would make her a candidate.to breed knowing she has.shown you absolutely.nothing in terms of quality traits?
Good point. Stacking some dogs away even as pets is a good idea
We have bred, raised and campaigned several winners. Several winners, who beat top quality dog men. We beat the absolute best in our area, we've beat some great ones out of our area. We can't put those names out in this forum, because last time we tried to share information, we received messages BASHING us for doing so. We will say this, our dogs are 5-0 this year. We have 2 Champions in China right now and a gyp, they say has the hardest mouth ever. (To each his own on that though). Our Deadlift/Bolio cross is 19-0 since we did the cross in the early-mid 2000's. Now, don't get us wrong.. We have lost some shows over the last decade and a half, but most dog men would kill for our record. Now, on to our Mayday stuff, our main stud dog has been bred 5 times with a total of 18 pups. Out of those 18 pups, 13 are of age and he has 7 POR points to his credit. That's a little bit about what our dogs have done.
Now, We weren't referring to YOUR dogs or YOU as a breeder Jack. We're speaking of Stone City Kennels. Awesome Baby did produce well, BUT - Was it her? Or was it the males she was bred to? Seriously, she only produced 4 winners in 3 breedings. And because she was a cold gyp, there's ALOT of dogs down from her TODAY that follow HER traits as an individual, COLD. Being that, that's the blood we run. Redboy/Jocko/Tombstone/Bolio. We have done the research, if you wind up the Awesome Baby dogs and/or the Buck dogs too tight, they throw ALOT of cold dogs. Period. You HAVE to use that stock as an outcross only or the percentages drop tremendously.
We understand genetics perfectly, it's something we study. One of our friends, KAG, knows more about genetics that anyone we have EVER met in these dogs. He taught us ALOT. So, we understand about traits skipping generations.
Now, to answer some more of your questions.. We're not telling ANYONE what they should do with THEIR dogs. To each their own. We just know what we do with our dogs. Now, we weren't saying if the dog COULD NO LONGER work, it had to be culled. That was taken out of context. What we meant was, if the dog is cold to begin with, why keep it around? We only keep performance dogs, so if the bitch wasn't performing, then she would have to go. We wouldn't keep a dog, solely based on pedigree. There are far too many QUALITY, PERFORMANCE dogs that are well bred. You know? So, why hope those quality genetic traits the cold gyp comes from pass through her into her offspring? Now, if traits can skip a generation, then it would be completely feasible to think her offspring would be able to throw COLD dogs, right? That's not something we're willing to risk.
If the dogs aren't good enough (in our eyes) then why take out just "pretty good" dogs? We believe you should only bring out the best your can breed/acquire, otherwise like EWO said, you're not betting on the dog at that point, but yourself. Yes, we have beaten titled dogs, we've beat alot of really good dogs that were off ALOT of great dogs from really good dog men. When people like TCF are contacting us, to buy our stock, that says something about the quality of our stock, right? So, yes, we have "World Beaters" over here.
And we do understand what you're saying Jack, but we don't keep dogs for breeding purposes ONLY, our yard is NOT a Brood yard. We are NOT breeders. It's a performance yard, meaning if they aren't performing, then they don't make the cut. We don't have the luxury of having acres and acres of space to house 20+ dogs. So, we don't keep dogs "just in-case". It's like college football; did you think they put players on the Heisman list, just because they "TRIED REALLY HARD", but didn't have the ability to put up the statistics needed? Not at all. Do you think TOP Athletic Programs are giving FULL RIDE SCHOLARSHIPS to the average High School football player? No.
Not necessarily trying to argue, just the way we have done things from the time we started in these dogs. Just never understood the need/want to breed a cold dog with a good pedigree, when there are plenty of working dogs, that have good pedigrees.
Cheers,
ToTheDogs
Great response ... I knew you had it in you
Give me till later to crack my knuckles and respond, but kudos for the thoughtful effort here
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