"Fast Lane"?

[Officially Retired]

Once a person has been successful for a certain amount of years, they tend to know what quality dogs are for the most part. Those guys don't have to match every quality dog they have to know it's a quality dog. They've been around quality dogs long enough to know what that looks like when it pops up. The best dog I've ever owned, and one of the best I've ever SEEN, was never matched once.

Yep.

For years (decades, now) I've heard nay-sayers say that because "I" don't match dogs that my dogs "can't be" fast lane ... and for every single one of those years, bar none, I have bred better dogs and produced dogs that BEAT "dog fighters' dogs" time and again, almost 9-1.

I simply know what winning traits are, how to maintain them in a family of dogs, and can see if they're there or not in practice with each individual in each successive generation.
By contrast, most people never stick with anything long enough to get to know it, master it, and so are forever playing "guessing games" with their random and pointless breeding decisions.

The point is that over time, the more you select for one type of animal, the more you'll get that type of animal. Always try to remember that and you'll be fine if you stick with it.

This is absolutely the truth.

And it is especially the truth if you stick with the same family (or winning combo), and select from individuals know to have (and produce) those traits.

Breeding to "a dog" with some traits you like (with a spotty background for them) is a rougher deal ... but breeding to yet another individual with these traits, full of similar dogs in his litter, and in his background, makes getting "the kind of dogs you want" a cinch.

I used to say, "I could produce better dogs from an accidental kennel breeding in my sleep than what MOST people produce traveling, paying stud fees, and mixing bloodlines," ... and, yeah, it was kinda funny to say ... but I wasn't joking.

Jack

[Macker]

I've heared it said Norman Kemmer culled anything that didn't start up by 12 or 13 months and anything that fought the head, he wanted balls out chest dogs with loads of mouth and I think he achieved that. I believe he had a super record of 27 straight wins with 1 loss and then another 10 or 11 on the trot.

Just another example of knowing your line and what to look for.
We had/have some kemmer dogs and in there pure form they seriously lack durability, they were thick winded, they have paper skin and they're very hard to save after a show, nearly like they lack the will to keep going. I've heard stories of them dying from the cold in other countries.

When we crossed them back into our own stuff we started getting more durable types of dogs, we quickly learned how to tell as a young pup which ones would turn out like the kemmer type mainly by the fine skin. When you get to know your dogs and your line you get to know what to look out for in your pups.

My point being Mr Kemmer wanted a dog that got the job done fast but I think the line may have suffered in other areas, well the ones we had did anyway.

[evolutionkennels]

I've heared it said Norman Kemmer culled anything that didn't start up by 12 or 13 months and anything that fought the head, he wanted balls out chest dogs with loads of mouth and I think he achieved that. I believe he had a super record of 27 straight wins with 1 loss and then another 10 or 11 on the trot.

Just another example of knowing your line and what to look for.
We had/have some kemmer dogs and in there pure form they seriously lack durability, they were thick winded, they have paper skin and they're very hard to save after a show, nearly like they lack the will to keep going. I've heard stories of them dying from the cold in other countries.

When we crossed them back into our own stuff we started getting more durable types of dogs, we quickly learned how to tell as a young pup which ones would turn out like the kemmer type mainly by the fine skin. When you get to know your dogs and your line you get to know what to look out for in your pups.

My point being Mr Kemmer wanted a dog that got the job done fast but I think the line may have suffered in other areas, well the ones we had did anyway.

absolutely not. . You couldn't be farther from the truth. the Kemmer were much more stupid than that. Norman and later Mitch were complete sociopaths. they were the stupidest dogmen to grace our planet. They lied on pedigrees, they culled anything from 6 weeks and up that ram away from the pen when you approached it. From the first roll.. if it went ONE time to the ear or head or muzzle.. . They would cull it. if the dog was overpowered in the actual match, and went to the head to recover, and came back to win in the throat or backend.. They would cull it after the show for having gone to the head. they weren't dogmen, they were fucking idiots that read the confederate Bible every night before bed and hunted African Americans for sport. Mitch had a shirt that had a pictureoof MLK on the front that said.. He had a dream, the back had the same picture but with crosshairs.. Said.. ours came true. Anyhow.. even after years of culling anything that went to the head... They still got half head dogs.. at the end Mitch was disgusted and sold all to a guy in northern California who still has them today. And the record was complete bullshit.. They lost more than they won because of the quality of dogs and decision making of Mitch, they did bring them right, and they were prepared with a written plan for anythingtthat could happen, but the judgement on dogs and confederate madness mixed in with dog ideology was their undoing.

Macker... Send me a what's app message. I'll send you audio

[Macker]

It's hard to describe how these dogs would go in a show, they where one track mind, to stupid to take a head hold. But the worst part was that they wouldn't be bet for wind, they're body's would just give up on them. They where 20 minute dogs, we once had one go 40 and have it all his own way, and after the show we where lucky to save him, you'd swear he'd just had a 2 hour war.

[Officially Retired]

Well said Macker.

I have heard of Kemmer culling for the things you mentioned, which always struck me as bizarre. (Especially if they lacked durability.)

To breed dogs that go balls-out with no durability would be like breeding boxers who "go apeshit" in there, with no chin.
Fun to watch, and I could see them winning in numbers like that in the bushleagues, but I don't see how they could ever win (or last) against the best.

My Coca Cola dogs were like that: they would decimate almost everything they went into.
Balls out, never took a backward step, always hunting for your guts or kidneys.
Other people would pick up in :05 to :10, with their garden-variety trash getting totally overwhelmed ...
However, Coca Cola dogs ALWAYS came up short against my top shelf Poncho dogs ... which were head specialists, with extreme air, smarts, and durability.
It would always be the same ... fun to watch for :15 - :20 ... and then a tired, helpess Coki dog being figured-out, rendered-ineffective, and starting to run out of gas and finding itself helpless ...

The very best dogs I had were a mix of Coki dogs and Poncho dogs: dogs with extreme body strength that "could" go for kill spots, but who would first grab the head, feel you out, and then go right for your weakness ... when you exposed it. They were awesome, all around animals.

IMO, those relentless, high-pressure dogs only look good at a certain level ... but they set themselves up to lose against top shelf dogs by wasting too much energy.

Jack

[Macker]

Lol they sound like a couple of villains from a dukes of hazzord show hahaha, you have a way with words evolution.

[Officially Retired]

I never saw a Kemmer dog go, but heard about their philosophy.

I didn't understand how, conceptually, they could ever hope to succeed against a truly good dog with their game plan.

To cull any dog for wanting to control the head is retarded. Literally.
Any smart dog will do that if he's in there with a good dog that can hurt him back.

Best I can tell, the Cajun Rules is a NO TIME LIMIT contest.
Best I can tell, you have to keep going, and you have to keep scratching, if you're in there with an equal.

Sure, it's nice to have super-strong, powerful dogs... but other people have super-strong, powerful dogs too sometimes

So you also have to have some tricks, some savvy, and some staying power to outlast an otherwise physical equal ... you can't just think you can mow everybody down.
And so to breed for a style (and lack of durability) that GUARANTEES you can't last is pretty stupid IMO ... for a no-time-limit contest.

Jack

(Didn't want to be so blunt, but since Evo went there, I figured why not? )

[EWO]

The guy that turned me onto the dogs dealt with Norman Kemmer back in the day. He beat him in like 40 minutes or so. When I saw the mention of his record I was not sure but did not know enough to say otherwise. He told me they were pretty much swinging for the fence and if they did not hit the homerun early they quit or were mauled. He did say you better have a hard biting head dog or they would bust you up quickly.

I had not heard the Kemmer name for a number of years but the jist of the Evolution post was told to me many years ago. Even down to the diatribes about the Confederacy and their views on 'culture'.

EWO

[EWO]

As far as their breeding methods they were just like some of the top breeders in the world. They picked a trait/traits and bred for them. In turn thy culled for what did not turn out that way. So when you breed for traits from within a family over time you will get those traits. If you choose to keep doing that and continue to pile up the losses. that part can get retarded.

thru selection you get what you want. Selection of the bad works the same as selection for the good. You pretty much get what you ask for. EWO

[evolutionkennels]

sorry.. But it is what it is.... beating the Kemmers. is no big deal, it's like bearing a special Olympian