Breeding young dogs

[Officially Retired]

My opinion is this: at the end of the day, people's "personal standards" mean nothing.

The only thing that truly matters is how their dogs do in open competition

Quibbling over "what someone else does" on their own yard, with their own dogs, shows a serious mental imbalance IMO.
I can't change what you're going to do, and you can't change what I am going to do.

If a man's dogs are winning, then shut up.
If your dogs aren't winning, then shut up.

If a man's dogs are repeatedly and consistently winning in open competition, then that is all that needs to be said.
If your dogs are repeatedly and consistently winning in open competition, then that is all that needs to be said.

Worry about your own standards, and if you're able to meet and beat (or lose deeply game in a long haul with) the best in the sport, then you're on the right track
However, if your dogs are only heroes in your own backyard (or imagination), against nobodies, but you have never actually produced dogs that have faced/beaten (or lost DG to) truly great dogs, then maybe your "opinion" isn't all that it's cracked up to be, when put under the microscope of factual reality.

Now, if someone else's dogs are getting out there and winning consistently, AND yours are too, then maybe BOTH ways are effective ... and there might be "more than one way" to do things right

Producing dogs that can win consistently is NOT just about "testing individuals" in the box ... it's also about effectively managing key genetic traits in the brood pen

Jack

[EGK]

All truth, just something else piling up the breeding on the way out to recoup a bit. Most definitely what you said was all truth though Jack. No dispute here. Salute

[Officially Retired]

Let me also add that I understand the concern for adding too many bulldogs on this earth, bred by every Tom, Dick, and Harry breeding their first puppies together.

I have done my part by no longer breeding dogs PERIOD.
IF I get back in, I will only do so IF I have enough "other" income so that I don't ever have to sell any dog for any reason.

So here is another truth:
If you don't want to "support" green bozos breeding dogs, then don't buy from them EVER

Because, ya see, here's what happens: the green bozo buys from the time-proven breeder (who charges $$, as he should, for his years of trial/error and success).
The green bozo spends $$$ to get his pups ... and then breeds them together, first heat, no real rolls. and then turns around and sells his well-bred/untested pups for $300-$500.
And guess what happens then?
That's right, YOU bozos then bypass the time-proven breeder, and buy the cheap pups being advertised by the green bozo, KNOWING that the pups will prolly still be good, but undercutting the proven breeder in the process. So YOU GUYS made this happen

Therefore ... put your money where your mouth is and either 1) BREED YOUR OWN or 2) SUPPORT LEGIT BREEDERS ... by ponying-up the $$$ to the good breeders ... and leave low-$ pups from two well bred dogs alone, no matter how well bred ... to discourage the practice of green retards breeding their first dogs and selling pups. And anyone who buys scatter-bred shit deserves to stay at the bottom.

You can also wait till the green guy gets out there and WINS with his dogs (after he realizes no one will buy), and then even he might hike-up those prices to where they belong ... and, in so doing, have "proven" his stock in some way. He'll find they're worth more that way too.

The best criticism is NOT BUYING the pups you're complaining about ... because the "complaints" mean nothing if someone's getting his $$.

Jack

[S_B]

Let me also add that I understand the concern for adding too many bulldogs on this earth, bred by every Tom, Dick, and Harry breeding their first puppies together.

I have done my part by no longer breeding dogs PERIOD.
IF I get back in, I will only do so IF I have enough "other" income so that I don't ever have to sell any dog for any reason.

So here is another truth:
If you don't want to "support" green bozos breeding dogs, then don't buy from them EVER

Because, ya see, here's what happens: the green bozo buys from the time-proven breeder (who charges $$, as he should, for his years of trial/error and success).
The green bozo spends $$$ to get his pups ... and then breeds them together, first heat, no real rolls. and then turns around and sells his well-bred/untested pups for $300-$500.
And guess what happens then?
That's right, YOU bozos then bypass the time-proven breeder, and buy the cheap pups being advertised by the green bozo, KNOWING that the pups will prolly still be good, but undercutting the proven breeder in the process. So YOU GUYS made this happen

Therefore ... put your money where your mouth is and either 1) BREED YOUR OWN or 2) SUPPORT LEGIT BREEDERS ... by ponying-up the $$$ to the good breeders ... and leave low-$ pups from two well bred dogs alone, no matter how well bred ... to discourage the practice of green retards breeding their first dogs and selling pups. And anyone who buys scatter-bred shit deserves to stay at the bottom.

You can also wait till the green guy gets out there and WINS with his dogs (after he realizes no one will buy), and then even he might hike-up those prices to where they belong ... and, in so doing, have "proven" his stock in some way. He'll find they're worth more that way too.

The best criticism is NOT BUYING the pups you're complaining about ... because the "complaints" mean nothing if someone's getting his $$.

Jack

I respect this answer, and agree 100%! Very well said Jack!

I've said b4 I'm not into buying dogs, but that doesn't mean I'm a fool and can't recognize when quality dogmen offer quality bulldogs for sale at a price that reflects their worth. And if I was looking to buy, I know where I'd spend my money.

As far as breeding young dogs for profit, like Jack says it's all about the quality of dogs being pumped out by the breeder.

Guys all the pissing, bitching and moaning isn't going to change things one iota. But if you practice what Jack just said above, you will be ok.

[EGK]

What Jack said for the most part is what this thread was about. Because it was a topic it may help someone when they read it. I believe the majority of us breed our own anyway. I know everything on my yard I bred for 3 generations and had to learn some years ago just what was said on here. Haven't bought a dog in 5yrs for myself. Salute to all and respect for a good discussion.

[MISTER]

I mainly started this post bc another member's post was sorta hi-jacked with this particular topic. I respect all opinions and methods, also I'm glad this thread didn't go ”left”.

[S_B]

Great topic Mister...

[MISTER]

Great topic Mister...

Thanks buddy, as we all know what works for me may not work for you. This seems to be one of those sensitve topics that people cant discuss without bashing one another. I just like to see other peoples methods, I know of quite a few winners,chs, and DG dogs that came off of young, untested bitches. Great responses gentlemen.

[Macker]

There's no money in dogs, And not just breeding them, even people working them. my honest opinion is the odd time somebody might get a decent bet on one of there dogs and win but anything people get they either put back into them or barely cover what they have put in. Maybe in America it's different but I believe these big stake shows are few and very far between, well anything you could consider earning a living from anyway. The media go on as if guys have millions on these shows but the truth is a purse of a thousand bucks is a pretty big purse these days. You guys would know better what goes on over there but over this side of the pond percentage wise, big purse shows are in the minority.

[EGK]

Right, No money really in them at all but many come in with that ambition as we all know. That's all I meant by that part. Also many that sale just to make a bit of rent, a bill, anniversary gift, holidays, etc. Those dogs they think worth a $1000 to just get them off the yard are given to neighborhood kids and sold from $75-$500. It was for the money but no real money and those dogs multiply with the same thinking or in the wrong hands. Hell no one will ever touch the level of selling dogs TG has been at. If anything though this is a costly lifestyle all the way around.