Conditioning only on a Raw feed diet or a Kibble with Supplement added diet?

[CYJ]

Thank you very much S_B. I learned a lot from that transplanted Texas Marine that I met up at Mr. Teal's place. He was way ahead of his times. LOL Over time though,I found out one can not just blindly use another person's work keep/feed keep. IMHO there are too many variables in different peoples life styles and climate locations. One has to work out a work keep/feed keep around their own work schedules/ life styles and the basic climate area they live in. Very possible a feed/work keep used with success in S.C. may need to be changed or adjusted say in a dry climate like in Texas/Mountainous area where air is thinner or a extra hot humid place like Louisiana.

Why it is much harder to travel over 500 miles to another dog persons back yard and win. When Lonzo Pratt beat a winning dog of Leo Kinards with his Mike dog. Lonzo had a friend airplane pilot and they flew in close to the dog show arena around three or so weeks in advance. Finish peaking the Mike dog right up under their noses. This allowed his Mike dog to get more use to the climate change. Pratt's Mike was a fresh butt kicking dog when the command to release your dogs was given. Rest is dog history on that event.

In my part of the woods a extra large round table under a weather proof shed was much more reliable than a swinging jenny. Even if I did like and prefer a Jenny. I had one 80 feet long with a excellent running track. The dogs that would run it,(most would not) did not like the freezing blowing wind or half froze water in the track or the scorching sun/ heat plus high humidity. No more than I did. LOL Never had a first time dog or even puppies that did not like running a big round table. Was like a hamster in a squirrel cage event. LOL Overtime going around to various known dog person's yards. Would usually see a big round table that was at least used as a bad weather back up along with a free spinning tread mill or carpet mill. Note James Crenshaw had that extra wide well built (probably German made) treadmill up on his back yard porch.

Said all this to say this. Try to learn how to work a dog in the best time efficient way one can afford. Or will end up working themselves to a frazzle. Will not be long before the person or the dog will be wondering who is working who. LOL

Need to get back on subject. Cheers

[CYJ]

Hello BSK. I looked up some of those products. I read the review on the RF-1 product on Tom's Face book site. For as any added supplementation. The RF-1 should cover everything. Adding another liquid blood builder formula that is shown in the Lixotinic product. Could throw everything off in your vitamin-mineral packet that is in Tom's RF-1 product. Could cause some of those vitamins-minerals to become toxic and strain the dog's liver and kidneys.

Natural MSM is the stinking natural sulphur we smell after breaking open boiling eggs. The MSM sold in the health food stores is fine. I take a heaping teaspoon of MSM with water every day and a one ounce shot of straight lemon juice/one ounce shot of Noni juice. The MSM only in in the A.M.

Putting MSM in powered form in any type dog food could make the feed very undesirable to eat. MSM in it's pure powered form is extremely bitter tasting. I just throw it to the back of my tongue and shoot it down with some water. Can be very nauseating if allowed to dissolve in the mouth. Unless you have already tried it on a dog, not sure how a dog would react to MSM even in capsule form. I know the Now Food company sells a Glucosamine/Chondrotin/MSM product in a hard jell capsule.

Dogs respond to to Glucosamine/Chondrotin/Creatine much better than humans do. Reason I guess is the lesser body weight to human dosage and much stronger digestive acids. I believe the RF-I already has the right amount of top quality Creatine/Glucosame/Chondrotin in it. One other thing about pure MSM. Best taken in the A.M as it can rev up the nervous and energy system. Taken to late in the P.M. can keep one awake at night. Cheers

[brokeback]

Thanks for taking the time to share these past times with us, CYJ. I enjoy them all.

[brokeback]

Some great posts as well, EWO.

[CYJ]

Ditto EWO on the fish meat. I gave that a whirl one time. Bought a heavy duty grinder and boxes of frozen fish. Forget the name of the fish used, was a cold water type fish and oily. Had no longer fed my dog about two weeks on this fish. Dog's coat got dull, hair brittle/ urine turned to a orange color and even stained the ground.

Seemed every fly in my area wanted to land on this dog. LOL Needless to say I quit the fish route real quick and never used another fish anything on my dogs. Salmon etc. might work up in Alaska, not in S.C. Those dog sledders on the Below Zero TV series still use Kibble dog food along with the fish they catch and dry out.

Just got off the phone with V.J. Had a good chat and he enjoyed talking with your friends awhile back. Another good article to read, about a known dog man's view of conditioning. Is Don Carter's article off the Game Dog History internet site. Title is " Was Your Dog Overworked?".

For me I had the best success with a AM and PM hand walking along with round table work. Alternated days with work on a overhead cable for the anerobic type exercise. Would love to see a dog built up to where it can recover in a anerobic state back to a aerobic state while pulling a certain amount of weight. Some things have to be observed first hand. Trying to write out everything is almost a moot point. Hands on learning is always the best way.

I use to think the way Boxers goes through their conditioning routines and the fight. Was closer to how our dogs are conditioned and shown. That was until I started watching ground and pound cage fighters. Talking with EWO on that subject. This appears to be the more correct and better over all type work plan. The ability to recover and push through in a anerobic state back to a aerobic state. Even then sooner or later that Fat Lady is going to sing for some one. Cheers

[BSK]

Hey guys the gyp is taking her keep well. But every time I add more than a tablespoon of chicken fat to her feed she vomits. The RF-1 is 32% fat so I guess she doesn't need any more. Some people that use RF-1 don't add anything else to the feed. What are your thoughts?

[EWO]

I'm a bigger fan of natural fats than fats out of a bottle or a gel-cap. With that said, it is all about what works for the particular dog you are working at the time.

Two things, usually if the fat goes over the teetering point for that particular dog doing said amount of work then the stool usually loosens up to the point they can pretty much shit thru screen wire.

Second thing is lots of times the dog will run hot. Not so much as the fat is causing it but more so too much fat and not enough protein the dog will not properly recover from day to day and even week to week.

If the dog is doing well with whatever it is you are doing, by all means stick to what is working. I do not know if I have ever seen a dog vomit because of chicken fat but I guess it happens. And it may be the reaction with something else more so than the chicken fat alone.

Best of luck.

EWO

[BSK]

Thanks for the response.

[EWO]

No problem. Keep us posted. Always something out there to learn. Most of the time the "next great thing" is stumbled upon by happen chance. Your particular combination may knock out of the park.

If something is working in a keep do not change it for the something "new and shiny". Practice and try things when your money or the dogs well being can be lost.

Don't give the other guy any more ammunition than he already has.

EWO

[BSK]

Right thanks again