man eaters

[wrknapbt]

I tend to see calm dogs as the opposite: high intelligence, dogs that take their time ... and get better and better the longer it goes.

A dog that has the sense to recognize what's friend, and what's foe, is typically the SMARTER animal

I think a lot of the "geeked-up" dogs start so fast, and look so good EARLY ... simply because they're letting it all hang out early ... so of course they look more impressive (at least at first).
It's like running: if you run as fast as you can, you'll cover more ground quicker ... but, ultimately, you'll never make it as far as a runner who paces himself.

Seems like, if the geeked-up dogs are truly superior to their foe, then they pretty much just steamroll the competition, which gets everyone all excited.

Trouble is, if those geeked-up dogs draw a dog with just as much ability, but a calmer demeanor, it seems like that, just about the time those geeked-up dogs start running out of steam, and fading out, those "laid back dogs" really start to come to life and begin to pour it on ... and it tends not to go so well for front-runners, when they draw a truly badass, truly long-distance War Horse like that ...

Geeked up dogs, because of their anxiety, simply "burn more juice" by their very nature and style; whereas rock-calm dogs simply conserve themselves by NOT being that way.

High-intensity dogs are exciting, and fun to watch, and I have had my share of good ones like that ... but I will always trust a truly long-distance machine a whole lot more if I have to be in a war ...

Jack

Jack this could be a thread of it's own. People ask me why I like Ch Angus Depot so much. Well he can run with other dogs of either sex and he can live in the house with no problems. But put him between your legs and he he will come unplugged .

[EWO]

I agree the OTC stuff, in theory, and truly OTC, have their merit. Agreed off topic, but to somewhat reel it back to the topic...most will agree fatigue and frustration can be the path to finding the cur. Of the two types of dogs the high strung/geeked up dog will more than likely run out of gas before his calm/methodical partner. Fatigue can lead to frustration, and frustration can lead to fatigue. It cuts both ways.

The problem (for me) with OTC is that two parties will seldom be equal, as one will come OTC and the other will 'walk his dog a little', or it wasn't a full 8 week keep, maybe 6 1/2. At least when it is a show all the cards are laid out and in most cases the better team wins.

Also agree about 'lifestyles' not being truly indicative of 'box traits'. A buddy of mine had a Ch. Tyrone bred bitch that stayed in her box close to 23 1/2 hours per day. She came out to eat, a quick piss and a dump and back in her box. She was not shy to people, she just did not see the need to bark and carry on at leaves, or other dogs, or dogs being taken off the chain. When the door shut behind you and she seen four walls she was absolutely maniacal, a controlling and punishing between the eyes face dog. Super intense. Remove the box from the equation and she went back to her house and happily waited.

The DTA Ch. Charlie male was high strung and as intense on and off the chain as any dog ever. If his dog house was slid back, then go rub the dog at the next chain space he would then turn his 14ft chain into a flying jenny. He would go at a dead run with a lot of that chain suspended for what seemed like hours on end. Lap after lap. After 6 weeks of that he could have been truly an OTC ace. LOL. He was methodical, but his methodical was much more intense than the next dog's methodical.

I have also seen those really smart, methodical, dogs who pace themselves break another down to death's door and then walk away, like "what's the point" I already kicked the shit out of him what more do I need to do?

It takes all kinds. EWO

I've seen a lot of "geeked-up" dogs on the chain not be that way once they get inside the square and the same can be said for calm dogs on the chain being complete retards inside the walls.

I tend to see them all as dogs initially, and let them show me what they are as time goes by. Calm doesn't always equate to intelligence anymore than geeked up points to anxiety or ignorance.

I do believe if you have 2 dogs of equal abilities, and one is a high strung animal INSIDE the walls, the calmer dog has the better chance of coming out on top, especially when pulled off the chain. That truly is what separates dogs on their own levels as opposed to a show where man has such an influence on potential outcomes. While I would never call an OTC gathering an actual show, regardless of a ref, weight, etc, I do firmly believe that is the best way to actually let the dogs themselves hash it out. I know that's off topic a tad, but I just followed my train of thought down the yellow brick road.

[FrostyPaws]

Yes, most high strung dogs will run themselves out of gas, especially if not worked in a proper manner.

I also agree on the OTC scenarios that you mention. Maybe I should've prefaced those comments with, "in a perfect world...." or "if it's someone you trust."

You are exactly right in that it takes all kinds.

[EWO]

DTA mentioned I had Filas for a number of years. As man aggressive as any dog out there, as their breeding has pushed them that way for many years, but they must be tested "GREEN". It can be as early as 10-11 months ( a bit premature for me but I did have one that was full on at 11 months but not the norm) or as late as 2-3 years. The temperament test is basically a guy in a suit with a short stick with a marker attached to the end. He basically moves at you in an aggressive manner trying to mark you and the dog must get out in front and engage to prevent the attack (protection). A green dog who is correct will bite the first thing he can get to and a lot of times will re-grip/re-direct upward biting toward the face. The green dog who is correct is hectic in his bite, biting with the front teeth/hangers and may or may not target. The 'sleeve happy' dog (trained) targets his bite to the sleeve, bites full mouth (practice) and performs in a more calm fashion (methodical). Both of these dogs show up to be evaluated/temperament tested for correctness. In bulldog terms, one is OTC and the other is not.

I agree 'in a perfect world' or 'someone who you trust' is a the best preface in showing merit in OTC. But even that can be a little deceiving as the chain running/very active dog will be in a little better shape than his lay around all day buddy. Then the question becomes did he run enough gas into himself to outlast the next guy or was he truly the better dog. I have always considered it a team sport, it is dog and man or man and dog, whichever you prefer.

Luckily I have only had one that I thought was a true man biter (bulldog). I have had others that would reach back and snap or nip to make you let them go to get to the other side. That is where a handle really becomes a "handle". Seen a dog being de-fanged and he re-gripped and got the hand. Like always, some 'all knowing, genius of a dog man' standing pit side exclaims he would not have a man biter like that and he would put him down right now.

Regardless of how people rank traits mouth is the most popular across the board. It is the most talked about. It's importance is relative. But when they are bred to bite other things it can't be a surprise when they bite something other than what we want them to bite. (us).

Again it takes all kinds. EWO

[EWO]

Regardless of how people rank traits mouth is the most popular across the board. It is the most talked about. It's importance is relative. But when they are bred to bite other things it can't be a surprise when they bite something other than what we want them to bite. (us).

Again it takes all kinds. EWO


Meaning, we must look at the 'why-s' when it happens to truly distinguish between man eater and non-man eater. EWO

[Officially Retired]

Jack this could be a thread of it's own. People ask me why I like Ch Angus Depot so much. Well he can run with other dogs of either sex and he can live in the house with no problems. But put him between your legs and he he will come unplugged .

Fat Bill said his very favorite, Bolero, would run loose in the yard and ignore all the other dogs ... played with pups ... but you put her in the [] and she'd shipwreck what was in front of her ...

I have never had a dog that "would hit anything" that I thought was my best dog.

My best dogs always knew WHAT to hit, and what not to hit

Silverback's mama Missy was among the funniest examples of this: as you carried her to the pit, her tail would be wagging, but as soon as you step over the wall, she'd be, "Aggggggg!", growling ... step back out, she'd wag her tail like a puppy ... step back in, "Aggggggg!", growling ... she knew what the pit was

Missy was the hardest scratcher (of an assload of hard scratchers) I've ever had and was devastating.

Even funnier, I put her in the pit with (the much larger) Wild Red Rose for Rosey's first time. Rosie was a big, thick, slow, ponderous (but extremely powerful) animal.
When faced with Rosey, Missy flew over there, chest-bumped Rosey, and immediately assessed that Rosey was a big puppy, and then just ignored Rosey.
That was the first time that ever happened. I had always put Missy in there with fully-started bitches, and Missy would just annihilate them ... but that day I discovered that Missy wouldn't bite something that already didn't want to bite her. The two started playing.

So I put Coca Cola in there with Rosey, just to get her started, as Coki was a puppy-killer, and would kill anything with hair that was moving, or try to, that wasn't her own pup sucking her tit.
Coki grabbed Rosey's front leg and went to shaking, and Rosey lowered her front end and started playing with Coki ... she was so strong, pain-tolerant, thick, and durable that what Coki was doing to her was flyshit, and she thought Coki was just trying to play, so she was bouncing around and "playing back"

When Rosey finally did start, later in life, she was a ponderous, but devastating animal (like George Foreman). Rosey was big, but only a 46, but she nonetheless wrecked and stopped the 6-lb bigger bitch who had Southern Kennels' Kitana picked up over at Leon's ... breaking that bitch's leg up at the elbow ...

Sure Rosey didn't even bother to do anything to the tiny Coca Cola, whom she didn't even assess to be a threat

Jack

[evolutionkennels]

Fat Bill said his very favorite, Bolero, would run loose in the yard and ignore all the other dogs ... played with pups ... but you put her in the [] and she'd shipwreck what was in front of her ...

I have never had a dog that "would hit anything" that I thought was my best dog.

My best dogs always knew WHAT to hit, and what not to hit

Silverback's mama Missy was among the funniest examples of this: as you carried her to the pit, her tail would be wagging, but as soon as you step over the wall, she'd be, "Aggggggg!", growling ... step back out, she'd wag her tail like a puppy ... step back in, "Aggggggg!", growling ... she knew what the pit was

Missy was the hardest scratcher (of an assload of hard scratchers) I've ever had and was devastating.

Even funnier, I put her in the pit with (the much larger) Wild Red Rose for Rosey's first time. Rosie was a big, thick, slow, ponderous (but extremely powerful) animal.
When faced with Rosey, Missy flew over there, chest-bumped Rosey, and immediately assessed that Rosey was a big puppy, and then just ignored Rosey.
That was the first time that ever happened. I had always put Missy in there with fully-started bitches, and Missy would just annihilate them ... but that day I discovered that Missy wouldn't bite something that already didn't want to bite her. The two started playing.

So I put Coca Cola in there with Rosey, just to get her started, as Coki was a puppy-killer, and would kill anything with hair that was moving, or try to, that wasn't her own pup sucking her tit.
Coki grabbed Rosey's front leg and went to shaking, and Rosey lowered her front end and started playing with Coki ... she was so strong, pain-tolerant, thick, and durable that what Coki was doing to her was flyshit, and she thought Coki was just trying to play, so she was bouncing around and "playing back"

When Rosey finally did start, later in life, she was a ponderous, but devastating animal (like George Foreman). Rosey was big, but only a 46, but she nonetheless wrecked and stopped the 6-lb bigger bitch who had Southern Kennels' Kitana picked up over at Leon's ... breaking that bitch's leg up at the elbow ...

Sure glad Rosey didn't even bother to do anything to the tiny Coca Cola, whom she didn't even assess to be a threat

Jack

Very interesting. love a smart dog.

[Officially Retired]

Very interesting. love a smart dog.

[No Quarter Kennel]

To each their own.
Many different man biters. I like consistency. If he's going to bite anything and everything, I can deal with that. If he is sporadic or unpredictable on what he will bite, when and why? I'll shoot him. Only had one like this in my life. He grabbed the back leg of my overalls right below my ass and tore the entire back leg of the overalls off. I never stopped walking. Went it, got my .44 mag and that was that. I will not feed an unpredictable idiot of any kind, most specifically an unpredictable biter.

I don't mind a dog that will bite others but loves me. Couldn't care less. He knows who feeds him and I'm cool with it so it works.

Worst biter, most aggressive I've ever seen was the T Rex dog on Hammonds' place. If anyone has his book, he's the dog in the "Man Biter" chapter of his book. I took that picture myself standing about 3 feet from him at the time of that photo.

[bulldoghistorian]

exciting I can handle , unpredictable , territorial, outright maneater gotta go

for every average troublemaker , there tons of average dogs that are more fun to have