breeding theory

[TFX]

That's great info TFX. Seems you have alot of knowledge on Garner dogs.

I'm no expert on Tom's dogs, but I had a buddy that bought a lot of dogs from Tom in the early 90s. We ended up with a real exceptional female that was half his stuff. The common Coal Cat blood in our yard led me to examine the GR CH Spikey, CH Rebel Yell/Rooster type of dogs from Beach Boy Billy. I turned a friend of mine named Jethro that direction since he already had a splash of it, and he really became the premier breeder of that stuff. Anything from Tom's yard with the Hollingsworth blood blended will be the best of that stuff you can get in my judgment, but there isn't much of it left. The other stuff people have had OK luck with is the Lee Ling, but my buddy had a pair right off Frisco X Lee Ling and they were junk. I have another friend who had a Frisco x Yoko bitch that they have done very well with as a producer. I still don't think the Lee Ling is as good as the Hollingsworth blends. The percentages on the Chinaman/Hollingsworth blends; and the Coal Cat stuff in particular, is actually quite remarkable. Unfortunately, after Jethro was arrested most of those Pencil/Coal Cat dogs are gone. The plan was to cross the Pencil/Coal Cat blood to my Frisco/Coal Cat blood to focus on that extremely high percentage of match dogs that came down from Coal Cat, but real life got in the way such as Jethro getting busted, my partner dying, and it just didn't happen.

[Kimo615]

Subliminal messages....I like it lol. Interesting. No...I was unaware. I just Google his name....found a chat saying he quit in a roll....found just as many saying he didn't. What am I still missing man?

[DUKE_CITY]

Those saafteys will say inbreed anhim hen outcross. When that actually works odds are the outcross was better than the animals being inbred. If you have to go over there to get it, one should have been over there from the start. EWO

Subliminal messages....I like it lol. Interesting. No...I was unaware. I just Google his name....found a chat saying he quit in a roll....found just as many saying he didn't. What am I still missing man?

I seen everything Ceasar did once he left nc. That dog never quit. If you contact lifetakers or stretched out kennels they'll tell you. We did roll him against wargam's push up and it was a straight blow out. Ceasar had purple blood running out of push up's chest after the first bite. Push up was almost gone in 5 minutes. (Eyes rolling in back of his head)They asked to stop it in 6 mins. We refused!!! After the older kennels said it was Unprofessional not to get Ceasar off push up. we agreed to get Ceasar. Push up scratched super weak. It took Jim to the 7 count to make contact.

When it was Ceasar turn he came like a rocket. The other handler picked his dog up before Ceasar hit him. Ceasar jumped up trying to rip him out this clowns hands. Ceasar fell over the box and hit his face off the cement floor. (All hell broke lose) Ceasar jumped back into the box and was chasing this clown around the box. We got Ceasar under control and was tail scratching him while things got ugly outside for picking his dog up during the scratch.

So in retaliation for the aftermath after the roll they told chico Lopez the dog quit and it spread like wild fire.

The reason for chico spreading the rumor was because Ceasar killed open house's big john Jr. (2xw) In 48 mins. Ceasar never touched his back.

Chico is a pure hater. He will claim Ceasar was 3 lbs heavier then big john Jr but that's incorrect. Ceasar was on weight at 46 and big john Jr was 45.13. We came down from 49 to 46.

The owner of push up barked up the wrong tree. He believed what was said on the net about Ceasar and got smashed in 7 mins. We where fools for playing with a clown like that but you live and you learn.

Push up end up getting killed in 17mins by gto's Fatboy. Sired by gto's big boy.

Sorry jack about the graphic details I just wanted to put our side out.

[OGDOGG]

Kimo, I commented because you seemed unsure if you wanted that pup off Ceasar. I heard rumors about him. But that's all it is for now. What I am getting at is that you are the one whos gonna make that decision to buy that pup or not. Just make sure it's worth it. Do some research about the dog in question before you make a commitment. If you don't care what anyone thinks then do what you planned on doing. But if you believe In honesty, find out the truth first. I'm not gonna tell you what I don't know for sure cause if I did I'd be lying. Good luck on your quest for the truth.

[Kimo615]

Thanks brotha...yea that's exactly what I'm doing. Asking around...getting fact and opinion. Doing some research. Can't believe everything you read on the net. That's why I'm trying to engage in conversation about it with legit dogmen and finding someone who knows about him and other dogs that is a honest person. Honesty is a hard thing to find anywhere now days. Especially in this hobby. I do appreciate your comments and everyone who posted. But...there's only so much info out there. I know he's being bred with machete...my buddy got a pup this year out of Momo and machete. Momo was sired by Ceaser. So far the pup looks good. Again...just like mine...to young to tell. I've seen Momo and Ceaser. Both look great. Momo is Ch also. How either are as producers I dont know. This is my first venture into this bloodline so I'm a sponge at the moment so to say on the lines genetics and anything else that may do with the line. I hate starting over! Lol. I never was big time...just eat sleep and breath apbt as a hobby. I'm gonna keep prowling...see what I can learn or uncover. I'm still listening if anyone has anything on the bloodline in general or Ceaser and Crocodile.

[realpitsnobull]

What up kimo it don't matter if he quit or not does not mean the pup you buy will do the same and let's all be real dog men a lot of good dogs have quit!! Alot at some point and time for different reason if they around long enough . u got 2 great dogs draws can be rare. Your dog got its own history to make.

[TFX]

a lot of good dogs have quit!! .

Suit yourself, but that is kind of the point I stop calling them "good dogs". Plenty of talented dogs have quit, plenty of famous dogs have quit, and plenty of quitters have become decent producers. A good dog in my book is a game dog, period.

[realpitsnobull]

Suit yourself, but that is kind of the point I stop calling them "good dogs". Plenty of talented dogs have quit, plenty of famous dogs have quit, and plenty of quitters have become decent producers. A good dog in my book is a game dog, period.

Well your book will be missing some of the best dogs that ever walked the earth cause maybe they were bested or had a bad day! But like u sd suit yourself.

[STA8541]

About "good dogs" quitting:

Suit yourself, but that is kind of the point I stop calling them "good dogs"...A good dog in my book is a game dog, period.

I like this. I really, really like this. Isn't it true that you need gameness as a foundation for your yard? Before & above anything else? I'm just spitballing here, but can't you "layer on" whatever traits you might like to have in your dogs, whereas gameness...that's pretty much irreplaceable, isn't it? I always thought that was supposed to be at the bottom of all bulldogs, regardless of how hard he can bite or how powerful a wrestler or how smart he is or etc. I'll be the first one to admit I am no breeder, but to me you spell bulldog G...A...M...E. That's just me, though.

[TFX]

No, I am not missing anything. "My book" is already a very proven commodity that has stood the test of time, which can be attested to by to those fanciers who are in the know. You won't find a single dog who quit in any pedigree of a living dog my kennel bred for at least 5-6 generations, because I have owned or known every dog in the pedigrees for that long. Yes, I have some losers in my pedigrees, but they damn sure never quit. There have been a couple of exceptions where a segment of my line was bred and then had a quitting loss after a breeding was made. Any such segment has been completely abandoned as brood stock. Likewise with the any segment where at least half of the litter were not game dogs. This isn't mere theory, or speculation, or pipe dreams on my part, this is an absolute fact. There are maybe 1 or 2% of breeders out there who actually know how to breed dogs well, and of those breeders most of them don't make a habit of breeding dogs who "had a bad day". There may be situations that warrant an exception, but it certainly isn't the rule. "The best dogs that walked the earth" didn't quit, rest assured of that.