Gr Ch Tornado

[Officially Retired]

Point well made.

I would never knock a bitch like The Queen. I was knocking the laughable idea that Ken Allen and The A-Team would 'duck' a 4-lb smaller bitch when he had the greatest bitch of all time ... and repeatedly went into the finest competition out there.

It would be just as laughable to say JA "ducked" the 5-lb smaller Gr Ch BB Red. BB too is an all-time great, and maybe she could win at even weight, but no way could she spot The Queen 5 lb of weight and have a snowball's chance of living, let alone winning. But if they were the same size she would.

That is essentially my point re: the 38 lb Queen of Hearts and the 42 lb Tornado.

[EWO]

It is always funny to me that the two camps had these two dogs ( and it could be any two in the same time frame) were doing doing dogs at the highest level. It didn't happen because the two parties involved understood the difference in weight. 20 plus years later there is always someone out there who never laid hands or eyes on either dog, but knows one camped ducked the other. Or more often, how a dog is 'really' bred. EWO

[CrazyRed]

Yes I agree with you two guys. JA was a smart man, very humble but not shy man. He was no fool and would never give you 2lbs let alone 5lbs. Same as Ken A wouldn't be foolish and take Tornado down 5lbs. Some talk about what others doing and then those who are doing.

[drz]

Great post fellas. Though I do believe that Tar Heel or some other authority recently pointed out that Greaser wasn't just slick. He was a killer as well. Don't quote me but I believe he had sent two home in sausage casings as testament to his mouth. Greaser was thought to be badder than Zebo or anything else around not just slick. He was said to chop them up without getting touched. He also did a lot of damage to Zebo in their encounter proving Zebo's gameness to many as Zebo suffered a lot of abuse before he could get to his spot.

Some words right out of Ace's mouth on the subject of Queen vs Tornado.

"My Queen of Hearts bitch was just a real killer! Many who saw her said she was a real ace. Lately many have wrote me and asked me if I tried to take her into Dbl Gr. Ch. Tornado, and I will say yes it is true. I asked Ken about putting it together and he said he would think about it, and later he said "No". There are many people who know this to be true, even Ricky Jones(At one point credited as co-owner of Tornado along with the A-Team) told Ken he felt that Queen would kill Tornado. Rebel had a first hand look at Queen when she killed his Ch. Lou bitch. I never really tried to push the match because Ken and I were good friends. I never felt the need to disrespect Tornado publicly because she was a hell of a bulldog owned by a good man. You can't take anything away from a dog that has won 10 matches, but I felt Queen was a better dog. Remember it's only my opinion and opinions are not facts. But what is a fact is I tried to make it happen. Queen was a bitch with 8 wins without any of her opponents scratching back for more. Both Queen and Tornado will be part of bulldog history until the end of time. I can't think any less of Ken, he was a man who showed his bitch 10 times, when most dogmen have to be forced or have their hand held to show a dog one single time."~ J. Abrahams

I like how Ace says "Opinions are not facts". As his been pointed out the outcome is only speculation as our Ken's reasons for turning it down.

For those who don't know a lot about Queen of Hearts she had one of the absolute best resumes in the sport if not they very best. Not only did she go into top flight kennels she also went into the extremely accomplished bitches. Every single time she went out from the first to the last she stopped a very good one from picking up a title. They were all going for a championship or a grand championship. No first time out dogs. No greenhorn dogmen.

Blondie 2xw(same bitch twice)
Mule Dog 2xw
Rebel's Ch. Lou 4xw had doa's opponents in under 7 minutes. Queen killed her in under 35 looking fresh after the show. this show was at I think at 39lbs.
Ch. Pepper 4xw destoryer who Roadblock called the hardest biting gyp he'd ever seen. Pepper had no takers after #4 until Queen picked up the weight. Queen planted that one in under 30.
Lady 2xw said to be a specialist on the head.
4xW Ch. Lady Beast
and finally 2xw J.Allen's Miss Redboy. Who was said to be super slick and super game. She was picked up to save her in under 30 as well. The Rebel has said to have put that one together to try to get revenge on Queen for killing his Lou bitch.

So while Tornado was the most winning bitch in history. Saying she was the greatest or most accomplished is still a matter of opinion.

As an aside one of the things that lead me to the old Vise Grip kennels page back on geocites was my tracking of a breedings down from Queen that lead to this bitch. http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum...php?dog_id=542

[Officially Retired]

Ken Allen's*Double Grand Champion "Tornado"*

On December 8th, 1991, GR CH Tornado made bulldog history. She became the first ten time winner and DOUBLE grand champion in history.

With all great bulldogs there are people that detract from the achievements of these animals. Who Dbl GR CH Tornado could have beat or couldn’t is a matter of one’s own opinion. Who she did beat and who she didn’t is a matter of record. The facts are that the list of notable dog people she beat is among the top the game has to offer today.

Her first match was into STP’s Miss Piggy. STP was quoted saying, by a close source, that if he could get the bet covered, he would mortgage his house that Ken’s 13 month old pup could not possibly beat Miss Piggy. Luckily for this proud fellow, the bet was not called as Miss Piggy was victim number one.

The pattern continued as Dbl GR CH Tornado beat D. Farve & JJ Hayward, Bobby Hall, Tant & Co., and Chicago Combine.

A while later, GR CH Tornado came to Florida to claim her sixth win. She beat “Emma” in 1 hour, 17 mins. Tito of the Local Boys was next in line and his bitch did not last the half hour mark and T. Garner and Raheem’s bitch went out game in half that time. Rastaman brought opponent number nine in the form of Boone’s Sadie, she was wisely picked up at 45 mins. Her tenth and final match was against the Canadian Francois Shobinoe, a man that brought a very game and talented bitch. It officially went 2hours, 34 mins. A wager was made on Tornado’s gameness and ability to finish a dog. At 3 hours and 18 mins in 25 degree weather, she was broken off her expired foe and then scratched back to it without hesitation. (most dogs will not do this)

All of the above dogs failed to live under Dbl GR CH Tornado except for one. All of them scratched dead game. She won her first at 13 months, and her last at the age of seven years old. Tornado’s total fight time was 10 hours, 20 mins. She killed three of the dogs without getting one puncture in her skin. Her 8th and 9th matches were only 3 weeks apart from each other.

Many people say that Tornado did not produce. But what people don’t say is that she was only bred twice and many only took those and bred them back to her father whom was a ROM. Though, she did produce two known 2x’s including Ken Allen’s Movin On.

[drz]

I was on the wrong side of an encounter with this one in school a few years ago. Only 25% Tornado breeding but had a lot of her ability to control the conversation if you know what I'm saying.

[Officially Retired]

Just wanted to reiterate the idea that the 37-38 lb Queen of Hearts would do anything but get snuffed by the 42-43 lb 10xW, Double-Grand-Champion Tornado is truly laughable

versus

Jack


.

[CrazyRed]

Just wanted to reiterate the idea that the 37-38 lb Queen of Hearts would do anything but get snuffed by the 42-43 lb 10xW, Double-Grand-Champion Tornado is truly laughable

versus

Jack


.

Not that Tornado wouldn't have won but Queen of Hearts wasn't going to lay down to get snuffed. Would without doubt be the best dog each other would have faced by far.

[Officially Retired]

I agree if they were even weight ... it would be an epic battle.

However, at their actual weight, The Queen would get freakin snuffed.

No way do you spot a bitch like Tornado 4 lb of weight ... that killed 9/10 dogs ... and had 3 kills without getting a hole in her.

No way in hell. You couldn't spot that bitch a gram of weight ... I don't care how good you are at 37-38.

You go against a bitch that good, who's that much bigger than you, you're getting freakin snuffed.

Jack