Good Handler or Questionable gameness ?

[EWO]

Absolutely. Handling is an art in itself. Way back when I got schooled by a more experienced guy. I thought he was in the way a lot and not letting the dogs do the show. I thought he was slow to handle and not on top of the situation. I thought I was a better handler with less experience. I thought he was not all he was cracked up to be as a handler/dogman. It was a subtle change to what I thought I knew over to what I eventually knew/know. He was there to win, he was doing his part and it was really helping his dog. I was young and inexperienced and I had bought into the phrase "it's all about the dogs". (Luckily, I was turned onto to dogs and tutored by someone who prevented me from making a lot of 'green' mistakes. As I said, luckily, that night we won. The other squad had a better handler, and in hindsight a better more talented dog, but we had better conditioning and enough heart to make it all work. We won but the ride home was another schooling process in itself. I learned a ton on the "Coach's breakdown" on that long ride home. EWO

[TFX]

Well, if someone is into doing the opponent a favor and helping them win, I suppose they will handle to their utmost ability each time out of holds, thereby placing the burden back on their own dog again every other handle.

You wouldn't be able to see if I was sandbagging it a bit as a handler when the other entry is up, but you could be damned sure I was going to show the other guy up when it was our turn to scratch, even if it meant pulling my dog from the bottom and forcing the other guy to handle his.

Jack, there's no rule that says you must be anywhere other than in the pit when the show is going on. Now, I'm not suggesting that being 16 feet away in an opposite corner is a good place to be, but you don't need to be in the ready position the whole show after the first turn either. If you're up against a 300+ pound man who is over 60 years old, do you think he is going to be as fast on the handle as the 21 year old kid who is in shape? I'm not going to help a guy out any, that is "poor sportsmanship" to my own dog! My pick ups are going to match his pace when he is up to scratch, and there isn't a good ref in the country who would call a foul on that.

[YVK]

This is a team sport and the best team wins. if my opponent makes a handle i will grab my charge BUT i will not initiate a handle that will not be advantageous to my team and as TFX says no good ref will call a foul on that.im not saying blatantly ignore the rules but maybe i wasnt fast enough, maybe i thought he was in hold, and i was just being cautious because what will get you fouled out sooner is repeatedly attempting to handle your dog and they are not free of holds.

[TFX]

This is a team sport and the best team wins. if my opponent makes a handle i will grab my charge BUT i will not initiate a handle that will not be advantageous to my team.

Exactly! Do I help the other guy out in the name of so-called "sportsmanship" (which this game severely lacks anyhow), only to put my own team at a disadvantage? Hell no! I'll err on the side of me and my dog winning every time, thank you very much. To do anything less is foolhearty. I've all but purged dishonesty completely out of my life, and if I was handling one tomorrow night, I wouldn't change a thing in this regard.

[Officially Retired]

Well, if someone is into doing the opponent a favor and helping them win, I suppose they will handle to their utmost ability each time out of holds, thereby placing the burden back on their own dog again every other handle.

That would be a slight exaggeration of what I meant

You wouldn't be able to see if I was sandbagging it a bit as a handler when the other entry is up, but you could be damned sure I was going to show the other guy up when it was our turn to scratch, even if it meant pulling my dog from the bottom and forcing the other guy to handle his.

Good point.

Jack, there's no rule that says you must be anywhere other than in the pit when the show is going on. Now, I'm not suggesting that being 16 feet away in an opposite corner is a good place to be, but you don't need to be in the ready position the whole show after the first turn either.

Agreed.

If you're up against a 300+ pound man who is over 60 years old, do you think he is going to be as fast on the handle as the 21 year old kid who is in shape?

You're building a strawman to knock down. I never said any of this.

I said if there's a CLEAR handle, you should make it. That is the rules: pick up FREE of holds. That doesn't mean if your dog is in the top spot with a half-hold, and the other is on the bottom with no hold, that you "must" snatch your dog up. However, if your dog lets go and is FREE of holds too, then it is incumbent on you to handle your dog. And, yes, you can get warned/fouled for not doing so.

I'm not going to help a guy out any, that is "poor sportsmanship" to my own dog!

I never suggested making wild-ass handles to "help out" the other side; I said you have to pick up FREE of holds after a turn is called.

My pick ups are going to match his pace when he is up to scratch, and there isn't a good ref in the country who would call a foul on that.

I don't think we're actually arguing about anything real here, just your overstating the degree to which I meant to pick up.

Jack

[Einstein]

I never liked all that handling while in hold and snatching. I call it a foul.

[North Strong]

It's so easy for the Monday morning QBs at work to talk shyt over the weekend show they watched.
I've seen dogs that are considered legends today and you would be surprised what purple do in the box for a win.
Now if you start calling out "that dog must have been shyt, doesn't deserve it's win, etc..." Leery me just tell you
As stated one is a legend today and everyone just about knows the Dbl Gr. Ch. That this dog was.
The other, that people still call a great dog...."the dog with tbd heart"g

[CRISIS]

"my knee was sore that day, what can you do??" LOL

[OGDOGG]

Make a handle to help your dog..or make a handle to end the contest..it's usually one of these choice.
The guy with the advantage don't have to initiate the handle if he doesn't want to. If the down dog is getting killed, his handler better initiate the handle, cause the other guy ain't gonna help him out. Thats just common sense.
You're right YVK, a ref will give you a warning for trying to make a handle when they're still in hold than not trying to handle.
In 19 years, I've never heard of anyone even get a warning for not trying to make a handle.

[Albino Rhino]

I agree, I'm not handling while I'm on top at every chance I could. Most guys are scared to handle from the bottom and I'm damn sure not doing their job for them. If the opponent is/does make a handle then ill be ready to make mine. I can't tell you how many times I've snatched mine up from the bottom and been told "nice handle". It ain't no nice handle, it's a PROPER handle that anyone in competition should be or able to do! If I handle mine and yours is chasing me because you can't/won't handle yours, a boot will solve that problem and don't go crying "foul" because the FIRST foul was you not handling yours, I don't play the "oops my bad I couldn't get a handle" game.