Redboy / jocko has made more dead game dogs !

[Officially Retired]

I know what you mean that is the way I am ,when jack was in Atlanta living with compound kennel he wrote me a $600 bad check .so come Sunday morning I pulled up at their house at 7 am a 6 hr ride for me .this can be verified by Andy Lewis compound kennel .and I came home with the $600 .i have kept this between jack and myself other than compound kennel all these years .he sure was surprised to see me .

Huh? Wow, you make up pure BS.

Verified by Andy Lewis? Are you kidding me?
Andy was the one who told me that bitch he got from you was "a straight killer" ... and it proved to be nothing but pure, made-up, childlike, wanna-be bullshit.
She's the bitch who couldn't see the better side of 5 minutes with two smaller bitches. It was clear she had never been rolled once and had ZERO pit savvy.
Andy actually flipped out and shit himself when my Pantera decimated his bitch. Andy actually asked for a handle ... against my puppy ... and I refused.
Then he started screaming, "I want a handle, Goddamnit!!" ... over what a 10 month old puppy was doing to his 1-lb bigger bitch
And you seek "verification" from a chump like that

I told Andy he could pick his POS up any time he wanted, but no way in hell was I going to give his bigger, older bitch "a break" from my puppy

Sonny, the only time you "showed up" was to roll your 8 lb bigger dog into my smaller one, so don't act like you came over as a collector or that I didn't know you'd be there.
Your skinny ass has never been anything but respectful when I have been right there in front of you, so don't act like you're a thug. Take a gander in the mirror
You know, I have had just about enough of your bullshit. You're a stupid man with some so-so dogs, and you're a GD liar. Everything you have said on here is pure BS.

You want to talk about bullshit, the fact is you stole Little Jack from Trad.
Little Jack won twice, beat a Champion the first time, then won in 1:58 over some Ch Paladin dog Jacobs has (I think).
Then Trad entrusted the dog to you to breed to (you're wanting more of my blood) ... and you claimed he "got stolen."
I mean, I could go on and on with all of the BS you're full of.
In fact, let's start with the quality of Ch Big John's "wins."
Why don't you explain to your lemmings that one of the "wins" was into your cousin (to whom you gave a discard dog)?
Tell everyone how you gave away a discard dog to a relative, and then you turned around and matched into it with Big John
What did it go, 5 minutes? And you call that a win?
That's some quality of opposition, Sonny

Hell, I could go on and on with your southern-bred bullshit, but that's enough for now.

Like I told way back then jack the breeding was like coffee and water ,my dogs being coffee and yours the water .mix the water with coffee the water gets stronger and the coffee gets weaker ,by the way sassy ran out the woods down here in 2 min

LOL, okay, whatever, Sassy quit in 2 minutes, whatever lie you want to tell.
I have seen fifty minutes out of a prime Sassy, and there is no way in hell any bitch on earth, her size, could put a dent in that powerhouse dog in an hour, let alone 2 minutes.
Now I can't say what Sassy did over there, but here are the 3 things I distinctly remember about Sassy and her being over there:

1) That she decimated 2 bitches of yours on the face, in fact so badly did she decimate your bitches, that you actually told Weapons of Mass Destruction (EverLast) that you were thinking of running Sassy on a mill, to get her tired enough first, so that she would be "reachable" by your slow, stupid bitches ... since your back-end dogs are tailor-made for my face dogs.

2) The other thing I remember about Sassy was that imbecile cousin of yours, Rivertown Dave, had Sassy and bred her to Yellow John. This idiot leaves Sassy on the chain until the day she's due. Then he comes home late at night and tosses Sassy in the brood pen the very night she's supposed to drop. After she gets tossed into the brood pen, Sassy starts barking and barking all night ... and Dave comes out there and beats the living shit out of her and goes back inside. Sassy starts barking incessantly ... again and again ... and this fucking idiot goes out there and beats the shit out of her again and again ... all night long until the morning time. Well, guess what? It turns out SASSY HAD 2 OF HER PUPS IN THE DIRT THAT NIGHT ... before your fucking idiot cousin came home ... and THAT is why she was barking and barking all night ... SHE WAS SEPARATED FROM HER BABIES AND WANTED TO BE WITH THEM ... and this fucking asshole beats her all night long, over her natural motherly instincts, because he's too stupid to consider this as a possiblity

3) After I got Sassy back, she had no muscle tone, and had a chronic vaginal discharge, which required 3 weeks of Baytril to cure.

Now, as far as coffee and water goes, when I bred Screamer to Poncho, I got an all-game litter.
Not a single dog quit in the litter, not a single dog matched off their offspring ever quit.
That is a total of about 15 dogs, with at least 5 going over the 2-hour mark. That's coffee son.

By contrast, when I bred Screamer to Ch Big John, I got 4 curs (2 rank) and 3 game dogs.
Dr Death quit in :12 to Poncho Jr. male (a 9-10 game litter).
Anthrax quit to his half-brother Duke Nukem in :19
Little Big John quit in 1:30 ... which was at least respectable.
Siren Girl beat a 1xW and then a 4xW, and then quit in an hour, which again was respectable

But that's still 4 CURS sonny ... one of which quit to another Screamer dog, sired by Poncho.
There were ONLY 3 game dogs in that litter of 7 to Big John, Sonny (Kulu, Little Jack, and Wichita).
That's water, son.

Yet, when I bred those dogs BACK to Screamer dogs, I got absolute consistency, NO quits, and TWO DEADGAME wins.
So the "coffee" is coming from my dogs ... which is why your dogs are what I immediately got rid of and away from.
More of my blood = higher gameness/win percentage = more coffee.
These are facts.

And BTW, that Siren Girl bitch (Big John x Screamer) was rolled into my Pantera bitch also (Gr Ch Sparky x Screamer), and it was a massacre.
Siren Girl didn't quit on that, and she was a pretty fast and good bitch, but Pantera was a fucken brute, and Siren Girl just did not have the power to deal with her and had to be picked up.

Jack if them dogs got any bad traits it came from your stock after all you said you needed the outcrossing.do you remember a dog named pretty boy ,he came from you some fellas down this way had him lost to Vick .said he was the rankest of all curs .

I never needed an outcross, what I needed was SIZE ...

And look man, Pretty Boy's gameness was seen in front of TONS of good dogmen, so just shut up on that, okay?
I can put up with debates and arguments, but will NOT put up with straight lies.
The dog was a bum ... I have always said that ... but he damned sure was no cur.

Jack you keep talking about dog fights ,first of all I hog hunt and sale dogs for hog hunting not dog fighting.now to set you straight on big John and mayday ,big John was like 9 or 10 years old and no teeth .and if you think that is the way to do a dog then you are no dog man either ,and the way you talked to blueprint with a fat dog and you think it is fine to put a 10 year old dog with no teeth up to that stress .you are a idiot .and if these clowns believe all that you say they are idiots to.a man can't believe half what he reads online ,just like you researched stps buck and gainey's jr to find out your research was wrong and. To think my not knowing dumbass had to correct you ha,ha ,and all you could do was blame it on Barney fife a dead man .you just can't stand to be wrong and you can't stand for nobody disagreeing with you either .

Yeah, okay, you got me on ONE point on ONE discussion. LAST YEAR.
I can stand to be wrong, Sonny. I mean, if you recall, I admitted I was wrong there, I conceded JR didn't go into Buck, and I stopped debating.
I didn't call you names. I didn't change the subject. I didn't go on and on about other matters (like you here). When the facts came out, and JR didn't go into Buck, I just said I was wrong. Why don't you have that kind of class?
YOU'RE the imbecile who can't admit you're wrong here. Because you ARE just WRONG that RBJ dogs are "the baddest" ... or that they have "the most kills" ... THEY DON'T.

Yes, I am talking about dog fights as well as matters that happened over 12 years ago, when Victor came onto the board and ran you up a tree. So Big John was 9 or 10 and no teeth, well so was Mayday, retard! As with the 9 year old Haunch, Victor was ready to match his old Mayday dog into your old Big John dog, and you shit yourself and refused. Gr Ch Zukill, a legitimately badass dog, killed 6 win a row with no teeth, why couldn't Big John, if he was as bad as you say he was? Were you afraid he didn't have the gameness of Mayday? Victor was confident in his dog, and said he could come to your back yard! You were running your mouth about Big John "killing" Mayday every day on my forum ... and then suddenly you got your chance ... IN YOUR OWN BACK YARD ... What went wrong, Sonny?

Jack is a good talker and writer,but no he doesn't know as much as he thinks .a good talker and a good writer can put up a good front .

I am a good talker, writer, breeder, and authority on dogs. You are an uneducated redneck, who's not good for much besides hunting in the woods and talking about RBJ dogs.
I know more about dogs than you will ever touch, so let's just leave it at that.

Pretty boy was down here ,he was like a baby that got his candy taken away .

He lost game in 1:10 to a Champion, that is not something to be embarrassed about.
He also got his ass kicked by EVERY dog on my yard (Icon, U-Nhan-Rha, etc.), but he never committed a turn in his life.

Jack you starting to act Peds online ! You starting to break your rules.
One last thing for me on this subject then I am done with it ,SAbre was not cold ,she was a nightmare to breed .

Actually, you're the one breaking the rules. The rules are to keep things civil and not directly insult others.

The subject was RBJ dogs, and you made the claim that they "killed the most" and "all the good ones" were RBJ dogs.

I tried to stay on topic and directly challenged these outrageous remarks with FACTS ... with DOG NAMES ... with ACTUAL MATCHES where the best RBJ dogs GOT WHIPPED by Hollingsworth dogs, Jeep dogs, Eli/Carver dogs, etc.

You are the one who came here and called me a "liar" and a "fool."

But you're right on one thing: this is turning into a PedOnline shit-fest, and it's probably better to STICK TO THE TOPIC ... so why don't you try doing that FOR A CHANGE Sonny?

I have asked you to name THE BADDEST, MULTI-KILLINGEST dogs in history ... and asked you to tell me how many of them were RBJ in nature.
Please don't tell me about anything other than ACTUAL DOGS.
Please don't have one of your icustomers come on here and tell me their dogs are "doing well for themselves," as if that has the first flippin' thing to do with ACTUAL MATCHES or THE BADDEST dogs ever.

This database has nearly 40,000 dogs in it now. Of all kinds of different bloodlines. So how to prove who-is-what is really rather simple
Simply go to the Search Engine and plug-in 5xWs only. You'll see several RBJ dogs but DOZENS MORE ELI/CARVER DOGS.

But then raise the bar to 6xW ... then 7xW ... then 8xW ... and guess what? NOTHING.
With every "upgrade," the RBJ dogs disappear.
But you will still see a bunch of Eli, Eli/Carver, and Jeep/Rascal dogs ... so what do you think that means, Sonny?

It means that you don't know what you're talking about. It means your original claims are wrong.
(BTW: I also don't see any of yours past 3 wins ... but there are a boatload of mine )

Speaking of coffee, why don't you wake up and smell some, Sonny?:
Eli/Carver crosses are the winningest, and the baddest dogs on earth. Not RBJ.
This is a matter of FACT, not "opinion." I was just trying to correct you, not get into an insult-fest.

So unless you have FACTS to the contrary, admit YOU WERE WRONG ... and sit down and shut up.

There is nothing to debate; there is no reason to insult each other any further.

Jack

[BRICKFACE]

if I was a MOD I would have locked this thread b4 it turned this ugly...smh

[waccamaw]

Huh? Wow, you make up pure BS.

Verified by Andy Lewis? Are you kidding me?
Andy was the one who told me that bitch he got from you was "a straight killer" ... and it proved to be nothing but pure, made-up, childlike, wanna-be bullshit.
She's the bitch who couldn't see the better side of 5 minutes with two smaller bitches. It was clear she had never been rolled once and had ZERO pit savvy.
Andy actually flipped out and shit himself when my Pantera decimated his bitch. Andy actually asked for a handle ... against my puppy ... and I refused.
Then he started screaming, "I want a handle, Goddamnit!!" ... over what a 10 month old puppy was doing to his 1-lb bigger bitch
And you seek "verification" from a chump like that

I told Andy he could pick his POS up any time he wanted, but no way in hell was I going to give his bigger, older bitch "a break" from my puppy

Sonny, the only time you "showed up" was to roll your 8 lb bigger dog into my smaller one, so don't act like you came over as a collector or that I didn't know you'd be there.
Your skinny ass has never been anything but respectful when I have been right there in front of you, so don't act like you're a thug. Take a gander in the mirror
You know, I have had just about enough of your bullshit. You're a stupid man with some so-so dogs, and you're a GD liar. Everything you have said on here is pure BS.

You want to talk about bullshit, the fact is you stole Little Jack from Trad.
Little Jack won twice, beat a Champion the first time, then won in 1:58 over some Ch Paladin dog Jacobs has (I think).
Then Trad entrusted the dog to you to breed to (you're wanting more of my blood) ... and you claimed he "got stolen."
I mean, I could go on and on with all of the BS you're full of.
In fact, let's start with the quality of Ch Big John's "wins."
Why don't you explain to your lemmings that one of the "wins" was into your cousin (to whom you gave a discard dog)?
Tell everyone how you gave away a discard dog to a relative, and then you turned around and matched into it with Big John
What did it go, 5 minutes? And you call that a win?
That's some quality of opposition, Sonny

Hell, I could go on and on with your southern-bred bullshit, but that's enough for now.





LOL, okay, whatever, Sassy quit in 2 minutes, whatever lie you want to tell.
I have seen fifty minutes out of a prime Sassy, and there is no way in hell any bitch on earth, her size, could put a dent in that powerhouse dog in an hour, let alone 2 minutes.
Now I can't say what Sassy did over there, but here are the 3 things I distinctly remember about Sassy and her being over there:

1) That she decimated 2 bitches of yours on the face, in fact so badly did she decimate your bitches, that you actually told Weapons of Mass Destruction (EverLast) that you were thinking of running Sassy on a mill, to get her tired enough first, so that she would be "reachable" by your slow, stupid bitches ... since your back-end dogs are tailor-made for my face dogs.

2) The other thing I remember about Sassy was that imbecile cousin of yours, Rivertown Dave, had Sassy and bred her to Yellow John. This idiot leaves Sassy on the chain until the day she's due. Then he comes home late at night and tosses Sassy in the brood pen the very night she's supposed to drop. After she gets tossed into the brood pen, Sassy starts barking and barking all night ... and Dave comes out there and beats the living shit out of her and goes back inside. Sassy starts barking incessantly ... again and again ... and this fucking idiot goes out there and beats the shit out of her again and again ... all night long until the morning time. Well, guess what? It turns out SASSY HAD 2 OF HER PUPS IN THE DIRT THAT NIGHT ... before your fucking idiot cousin came home ... and THAT is why she was barking and barking all night ... SHE WAS SEPARATED FROM HER BABIES AND WANTED TO BE WITH THEM ... and this fucking asshole beats her all night long, over her natural motherly instincts, because he's too stupid to consider this as a possiblity

3) After I got Sassy back, she had no muscle tone, and had a chronic vaginal discharge, which required 3 weeks of Baytril to cure.

Now, as far as coffee and water goes, when I bred Screamer to Poncho, I got an all-game litter.
Not a single dog quit in the litter, not a single dog matched off their offspring ever quit.
That is a total of about 15 dogs, with at least 5 going over the 2-hour mark. That's coffee son.

By contrast, when I bred Screamer to Ch Big John, I got 4 curs (2 rank) and 3 game dogs.
Dr Death quit in :12 to Poncho Jr. male (a 9-10 game litter).
Anthrax quit to his half-brother Duke Nukem in :19
Little Big John quit in 1:30 ... which was at least respectable.
Siren Girl beat a 1xW and then a 4xW, and then quit in an hour, which again was respectable

But that's still 4 CURS sonny ... one of which quit to another Screamer dog, sired by Poncho.
There were ONLY 3 game dogs in that litter of 7 to Big John, Sonny (Kulu, Little Jack, and Wichita).
That's water, son.

Yet, when I bred those dogs BACK to Screamer dogs, I got absolute consistency, NO quits, and TWO DEADGAME wins.
So the "coffee" is coming from my dogs ... which is why your dogs are what I immediately got rid of and away from.
More of my blood = higher gameness/win percentage = more coffee.
These are facts.

And BTW, that Siren Girl bitch (Big John x Screamer) was rolled into my Pantera bitch also (Gr Ch Sparky x Screamer), and it was a massacre.
Siren Girl didn't quit on that, and she was a pretty fast and good bitch, but Pantera was a fucken brute, and Siren Girl just did not have the power to deal with her and had to be picked up.





I never needed an outcross, what I needed was SIZE ...

And look man, Pretty Boy's gameness was seen in front of TONS of good dogmen, so just shut up on that, okay?
I can put up with debates and arguments, but will NOT put up with straight lies.
The dog was a bum ... I have always said that ... but he damned sure was no cur.





Yeah, okay, you got me on ONE point on ONE discussion. LAST YEAR.
I can stand to be wrong, Sonny. I mean, if you recall, I admitted I was wrong on JR going into Buck and stopped debating.
I didn't call you names. I didn't change the subject. I didn't go on and on about other matters (like you here). When the facts came out, and JR didn't go into Buck, I just said I was wrong. Why don't you have that kind of class?
YOU'RE the imbecile who can't admit you're wrong here. Because you ARE just WRONG that RBJ dogs are "the baddest" ... or that they have "the most kills" ... THEY DON'T.

Yes, I am talking about dog fights as well as matters that happened over 12 years ago, when Victor came onto the board and ran you up a tree. So Big John was 9 or 10 and no teeth, well so was Mayday retard. Like the 9 year old Haunch, Victor was ready to match his old dog into your old dog, and you shit yourself and refused. Gr Ch Zukill, a legitimately badass dog, killed 6 win a row with no teeth, why couldn't Big John, if he was as bad as you say he was? Were you afraid he didn't have the gameness of Mayday? Victor was confident in his dog, and said he could come to your back yard! You were running your mouth about Big John "killing" Mayday ... and then you got your chance ... IN YOUR OWN BACK YARD ... What went wrong, Sonny?





I am a good talker, writer, breeder, and authority on dogs. You are an uneducated redneck, who's not good for much besides hunting in the woods and talking about RBJ dogs.
I know more about dogs than you will ever touch, so let's just leave it at that.





He lost game in 1:10 to a Champion, that is not something to be embarrassed about.
He also got his ass kicked by EVERY dog on my yard (Icon, U-Nhan-Rha, etc.), but he never committed a turn in his life.




Actually, you're the one breaking the rules. The subject was RBJ dogs, and you made the claim that they "killed the most" and "all the good ones" were RBJ dogs.

I tried to stay on topic and directly challenged these outrageous remarks with FACTS ... with DOG NAMES ... with ACTUAL MATCHES where the best RBJ dogs GOT WHIPPED by Hollingsworth dogs, Jeep dogs, Eli/Carver dogs, etc.

You are the one who came here and called me a liar and a fool. Sorry, Sonny, you're the liar and the fool.

But you're right on one thing: this is turning into a PedOnline shit-fest, and it's probably better to STICK TO THE TOPIC ... so why don't you try doing that FOR A CHANGE Sonny?

I have asked you to name THE BADDEST, MULTI-KILLINGEST dogs in history ... and asked you to tell me how many of them were RBJ in nature.
Please don't tell me about anything other than ACTUAL DOGS. Please don't have one of your idiot-customers come on here and tell me their dogs are "doing well for themselves," as if that has the first flippin' thing to do with ACTUAL MATCHES or THE BADDEST dogs ever.

This database has nearly 40,000 dogs in it now. Of all kinds of different bloodlines. Go to the Search Engine and plug-in 5xWs only. You'll see several RBJ dogs but DOZENS MORE ELI/CARVER DOGS.

But then raise the bar to 6xW ... then 7xW ... then 8xW ... and guess what? NOTHING.
With every "upgrade," the RBJ dogs disappear.
But you will still see a bunch of Eli, Eli/Carver, and Jeep/Rascal dogs ... so what do you think that means, Sonny?

That you don't know what you're talking about.
(I also don't see any of yours past 3 wins ... but there are a boatload of mine )

Speaking of coffee, why don't you wake up and smell some, Sonny?: Eli/Carver type dogs are the winningest, and the baddest dogs on earth. Not RBJ.
This is a matter of FACT, not "opinion." I was just trying to correct you, not get into an insult-fest.

So unless you have FACTS to the contrary, admit YOU WERE WRONG ... and sit down and shut up.

There is nothing to debate; there is no reason to insult each other any further.

Jack

The truth hurts don't it jack ,you do know Edgar Allen Poe was a crazy writer jack kinda had hallucinations from all that dope ,that's when he did his writing ,(hint) jack .get off that shit !!!!!!!!!! You keep coming up with shit you don't know ,nothing you ever say is from what you have seen but what you have heard and that is the truth and you know it ,and you did write me a bad check and I did go get it !

[Blueprint]

This is to Blue print ,

Blue print take note on this thread ,this is how to hard heade men debate ,neither one will back down or suck ups .ain't that right jack .lol

I didn't back down or suck up. I'm a more in person hands on face to face type if you know what I mean. The Internet is the Internet so I just choose to keep it moving and leave it at that. One could go back and forth all day long but in the end what does it amount to ? Maybe being a keyboard jockey or Internet bad ass. I thought I was getting away from the bull that goes on Feds online by coming here but guess not its still the Internet.
.

[S_B]

I didn't back down or suck up. I'm a more in person hands on face to face type if you know what I mean. The Internet is the Internet so I just choose to keep it moving and leave it at that. One could go back and forth all day long but in the end what does it amount to ? Maybe being a keyboard jockey or Internet bad ass. I thought I was getting away from the bull that goes on Feds online by coming here but guess not its still the Internet.
.

[GO HARD]

My waccamaw hounds is getting the job done and i have no insecurities about taking them hog hunting (anywhere). I also have several hounds from Mr grinderman that get the job done in short order. One must remember that (anybody) can get that ass tore up. Imo it makes a big difference in who the hound is being brought in by to determine the hounds available output that day.

[waccamaw]

I didn't back down or suck up. I'm a more in person hands on face to face type if you know what I mean. The Internet is the Internet so I just choose to keep it moving and leave it at that. One could go back and forth all day long but in the end what does it amount to ? Maybe being a keyboard jockey or Internet bad ass. I thought I was getting away from the bull that goes on Feds online by coming here but guess not its still the Internet.
.

I know what you mean that is the way I am ,when jack was in Atlanta living with compound kennel he wrote me a $600 bad check .so come Sunday morning I pulled up at their house at 7 am a 6 hr ride for me .this can be verified by Andy Lewis compound kennel .and I came home with the $600 .i have kept this between jack and myself other than compound kennel all these years .he sure was surprised to see me .

[creek_bottom]

I've been reading this thread for a few days now and I know that Jack certainly does his homework and provides many interesting factual statements. I've only been in these dogs for 11 years and I am personally a big fan of RBJ and Jeep/Redboy dogs although I've tries several other bloodlines over the past 11 years. I actually have a dog now down off some of Waccamaws stuff crossed to some Tab stuff that is doing well for himself. I'm in Texas and I can honestly say I've never had the opportunity to see any vise grip dogs at all. No poncho dogs no coca cola dogs no silverback dogs nothing. This probably has a lot to do with the small circle I keep and my limited time in the dogs. My question to you Jack is if I was interested in giving your stock a try what would be my best bet to go with? I know you don't maintain a large yard anymore but do you still breed and have dogs available? If not who do you feel is doing the best work out there now with your line? I know you are very knowledgeable on breeding and genetics as well what crosses if any worked best for you off your Hollingsworth stuff or is keeping it pure the way to go. Thanks in advance for any insight you can send my way.
Creek Bottom

[Officially Retired]

I've been reading this thread for a few days now and I know that Jack certainly does his homework and provides many interesting factual statements. I've only been in these dogs for 11 years and I am personally a big fan of RBJ and Jeep/Redboy dogs although I've tries several other bloodlines over the past 11 years. I actually have a dog now down off some of Waccamaws stuff crossed to some Tab stuff that is doing well for himself.

Hi. Yes, I do try to do my homework, and either use facts to support what I say, or I don't say anything.

I am glad your dog is "doing well for himself," but what does that mean, exactly?

Won something? Looks good in his first roll? At what level has he done something well?

I'm in Texas and I can honestly say I've never had the opportunity to see any vise grip dogs at all. No poncho dogs no coca cola dogs no silverback dogs nothing. This probably has a lot to do with the small circle I keep and my limited time in the dogs. My question to you Jack is if I was interested in giving your stock a try what would be my best bet to go with? I know you don't maintain a large yard anymore but do you still breed and have dogs available? If not who do you feel is doing the best work out there now with your line? I know you are very knowledgeable on breeding and genetics as well what crosses if any worked best for you off your Hollingsworth stuff or is keeping it pure the way to go. Thanks in advance for any insight you can send my way.
Creek Bottom

There have been a few Poncho dogs in Texas. Get with Redrum on this forum if you're in Texas and want to see some. He has the Icestorm dog from me, who's "done well for himself" as a producer also. What I mean by that phrase is the first of his offspring won BIS in a huge Mexican convention not too long ago, and is getting bred to some of the best Champion and Grand Champion bitches in all of Mexico (Gr Ch Cheyenne, Ch Enana, etc.), since dozens of people (not a "small circle") saw him literally get his muzzle eaten off his face (as in, literally, removed--he can't be photographed anymore) ... and he still never quit and won the fight in 2:10 ... and lived.

So he might have something for you.

Good luck,

Jack

[waccamaw]

I've been reading this thread for a few days now and I know that Jack certainly does his homework and provides many interesting factual statements. I've only been in these dogs for 11 years and I am personally a big fan of RBJ and Jeep/Redboy dogs although I've tries several other bloodlines over the past 11 years. I actually have a dog now down off some of Waccamaws stuff crossed to some Tab stuff that is doing well for himself. I'm in Texas and I can honestly say I've never had the opportunity to see any vise grip dogs at all. No poncho dogs no coca cola dogs no silverback dogs nothing. This probably has a lot to do with the small circle I keep and my limited time in the dogs. My question to you Jack is if I was interested in giving your stock a try what would be my best bet to go with? I know you don't maintain a large yard anymore but do you still breed and have dogs available? If not who do you feel is doing the best work out there now with your line? I know you are very knowledgeable on breeding and genetics as well what crosses if any worked best for you off your Hollingsworth stuff or is keeping it pure the way to go. Thanks in advance for any insight you can send my way.
Creek Bottom

You mean to tell me there is not a lot of vise grip dogs in Texas ,he'll that's out west .just a few poncho dogs in Texas .thats funny jack is a legend in his on mind .