Redboy / jocko has made more dead game dogs !

[FrostyPaws]

Wacc, while I think where dogs come from initially may have some relevant meaning, how the end up years down the road (better or worse) is solely dependent on the people with those dogs and working them. I'm sure there are plenty of dogs all over the world that weren't up to ANYONE'S standards when sold, but later on through dedication and smart breeding, the new owners made those dogs better. If the dogs on the west coast are still successful from those men, it isn't because of those men. It is because of the owners NOW and their ability to continue to improve upon what they originally bought. Because Voyles got Double Trouble and Sexy from Fletcher in the 80s doesn't mean those dogs competed at the level they did, and do now, because they came from him. They did that due to what Voyles bred, schooled, and put out there over the decades since then. I can list names of men that have sent dogs all over the world, and while the initial success is due to them most of the time, the continuing success isn't.

[waccamaw]

The reason I oped that was you made it a point to say voles got his dogs straight from Chavis.and jack made the statement about out west in comparison to sc .what I was getting at most of the so called great dog men cane from the east coast .like you said voles got his great dogs from sc .

[Officially Retired]

The reason I oped that was you made it a point to say voles got his dogs straight from Chavis.and jack made the statement about out west in comparison to sc .what I was getting at most of the so called great dog men cane from the east coast .like you said voles got his great dogs from sc .

Most of the great dogmen came from the east coast? Really?

What all-time great names are better than Tudor and Carver, who were western dogmen?

Seems to me, most eastern dogmen got their foundation dogs from western dogmen

Jack

[waccamaw]

Most of the great dogmen came from the east coast? Really?

What all-time great names are better than Tudor and Carver, who were western dogmen?

Seems to me, most eastern dogmen got their foundation dogs from western dogmen

Jack

This can go on and on ,but you nc look back in their Peds and it goes back east .

[Officially Retired]

There you go .so one would not have to go west being the west has made east.

Right. Exactly. The west made the east.

but where did the Patrick get his dogs .

From the western dogmen Carver and Mayfield

This can go on and on ,but you nc look back in their Peds and it goes back east .

Yes it can, but the best, most historical, most influential dogmen are not from North Carolina ... they're western dogmen.

The great western dogmen are the ones who set the eastern dogmen up

In fact, Tom Garner got his two most influential dogs (Chinaman and Frisco) from the western dogman Vince Romero.
All his other dogs (even the ones with Crenshaw in them) came from the west, as Crenshaw likewise got his best dogs from the western dogman Maurice Carver also.

Jack

[swampdawg]

Bass,Teal,Skinner,Hemphill,Oneal,Colby and the list goes on

[waccamaw]

Right. Exactly. The west made the east.





From the western dogmen Carver and Mayfield





Yes it can, but the best, most historical, most influential dogmen are not from North Carolina ... they're western dogmen.

The great western dogmen are the ones who set the eastern dogmen up

In fact, Tom Garner got his two most influential dogs (Chinaman and Frisco) from the western dogman Vince Romero.
All his other dogs (even the ones with Crenshaw in them) came from the west, as Crenshaw likewise got his best dogs from the western dogman Maurice Carver also.

Jack

Jack you are so full of shit .i bet when the first dogs came over from Ireland they went straight to the west .

[FrostyPaws]

Yes, he got his dogs straight from Fletcher. That is true. But what he did afterwards was all his doing not Fletcher's doing. Double Trouble and Sexy weren't outstanding dogs. Little John himself wasn't an outstanding dog. I never said he got great dogs from Fletcher. What Voyles and Little John produced were some outstanding dogs, and that was due to the breeding decisions Voyles made himself. It had little to do with dogs coming from Fletcher.

Some of the best dogs I've ever had/seen were from a obscure breeder from Oklahoma. The ability to breed quality dogs, or quality dogs themselves, don't all originate on the East Coast. I'm in the South. I've lived all over this country and in Canada. None of the best dogs I've ever seen were bred by someone on the East Coast. As for your definition of great dogmen and mine, well, I'd say that while there are some common agreements, I wouldn't put every name you had in the "great" dogman category.

[waccamaw]

Well they are not great in my eyes either ,but a lot thought they were.what I was getting at a fella did not have to go across the country when a big share of them was already here .by the way where was ole man Hollingsworth from?

[Officially Retired]

You can add Patrick's name to that ... Hollingsworth, Boyles, and STP all got their very best dogs from that western breeder also