Projectx, I realize you are a Mayfield disciple ... and that you probably wear Mayfield t-shirts and say your prayers to Mayfield at night ... but please don't start talking to me as if "you" are now Mayfield ... because it really can't get much more embarrassing for you at this pointOriginally Posted by projectx
Jack
Some folks think every great Black dog has Eli behind it and every Mayfield fancier thinks Eli is a dog Mayfield bred. One thing, why not incorporate any of that Eli blood in the yard?
Far as Zebo, no way he was son of Eli, nothing about him says Eli besides the fact he was a destroyer and black. He looks just like his daddy Andy and he looks and performs like Mike and those dogs down off Mike. If anything Vindy & Rosie might be the dogs that are questioned out of that breeding but before folks go to question that please know that Beal's dog Powhattan was a Red RN dog. Pow is also off Snowball, and that litter "Andy x Angie" was Grandfather bred back to his grandaughter which was also his niece who was off his half brother/uncle.
Wish I still had my old Pete Spark's Bound books and the older Blood lines magazines. A lot of those older pedigrees are in those books. Only way to check is get a printed copy of both pedigrees. The errors may or may not be there. I think it is just a human error and nothing more. Mr.Tudor was a Game Chicken man and Boudreaux had access to some good Game Chicken stock. Cajuns liked the Game Chicken Sport probably more than the dogs. Some of the best Game Chicken breeders lived in Cajun country.
Bass' Tramp Red Boy was bred to other bitches before Bass owned him. Mr. Martin was breeding him early as 12 to 14 months or so. Rowell had one of those breeding's off Martin's lady called Ringo. My brother had Ringo's full sister named Liz. Both dogs were black and white.
So a male dog can be bred at a young age. A Black man owned Dibo for a good while and was how this dog got his name. He could have bred Dibo as well, before anybody else got him. He may have had no papers and Heinzl had to apply for them. Nothing can be proved by just a conservation were two dog men may have just been feeling each other out.
When Pit General got stole, sure the conversation between Mayfield and Carver was more of a feeling each other out. Mayfield was running up and down rabbit trails. Carver may have been a suspect.
The conversation between Mayfield and Maloney could have been Maloney screwing with Don. Flip flopping in the conversation to have a little fun. See how one can build up assumptions. Why certain type picture taking and taped conversations without the person knowing can not be used in a court of law. Or if court approved the other lawyer is to have access to them as well to prepare a proper defense.
I worked and retired from the Telephone company. If one is being recorded with certain type equipment approved to be used by a Court Order. The approved equipment was placed on the main frame inside the Telephone Central Office and tagged.
A person being recorded without permission and outside premises equipment used. Would hear a intermediate beep back in those days. If a off premise extension was put on a main telephone line. The Telephone company would notify the main house # and let that person know about the off premise extension.
So if Carver/Maloney/Patrick or who ever heard those beeps. Knew they were being recorded and might could have just played along. One thing I have learned in my life is how one treats others are generally how you get treated back. As the old saying goes, What goes around comes around. Cheers
Jack, I liked Mayfield and visited with him many times. He was a very interesting person til around the last four or five years of his life. He would write paragraph after parigraph of material that I had no understanding of what he was trying to say sort of like projectX. Clements called it the Ramblings of Mayfield. I ask Boudreaux years ago. Boudreaux may not remember this about what he thought about Mayfield and some of the things he said. He'd grin and say Mayfield is mayfield. I never did worship Mayfield like he was a God liike some of the dogmen do. Matter of fact I do not believe there are any dogmen without some faults expecially myself. Mayfield was a talented dogman with many faults just like everyone else. Weldon stockton who is a long time trusted friend of mine and also was a good friend of Mayfields. I talk to him on the internet three or four times a week. He read a statement Mayfield wrote that he only fought dogs that belong to himself. Weldon said that is a damn lie. Weldon said Mayfield borrowed several dogs from me and matched them. Of course all dogmen back then knew that. His outstanding ability was in his conditioning only. I see lots of people better than him in other areas. I do not think he was a better conditioner than Floyd. Mayfield was a Bell boy at a Hotel and Floyd told me he put tile in bathrooms and did lots of other professsional stuff. I told him I was a Commercial Plumbing Contractor and he said he also Plumbed. So I put him up quiet a bit above Mayfield in his work and money making abilities. Mayfield as he got older quit the bell boy job and rasied a big commercial vegetable garden and did good at that. He had lots of customers. Like I said he was a good dogman but not a God to be worshipped.
Well (and fairly) said.
Jack
Let It Go Please !!!!
Lmao !!!!
ProjectX You enter this man's web and twist and turn everything you can to make someone think you have stumbled onto the pot of Gold. It is a good thing that this isn't my web because your words along with the whole topic would vanish into the air without a stain left on this board. Your thoughts are not showing facts about anything. You rant on and on like your needle is stuck on an old 45-RPM record. You are like a child that was just dropped into a mans world with no idea of the past or present. How does your kind of people stumble into a real dog man's world. I am not assassinating Mayfield I am simply stating the facts. If I have an opinion about anything that deviates from your dream. You think I am a bad crazy know nothing person and so is anyone else that has a thought. I'm not sure if you can have any open thoughts a day. You think it, you type it, You believe it, so it is so. Like I said your one Lucky man this isn't my web. I might have told a thing or two that wasn't part of the debate about Mayfield. It wasn't to hurt Mayfield it was to show you he was a man and not a perfect man and he was far down the morale charcter chain for someone who should be worshipped. What we did was break laws for our entertainment at the dogs expense in those days. That doesn't make any of us a Saint. I always ask God to forgive me for what I was fixing to do when I fought a dog. Because I wasn't sure he liked me doing that. I have ask God many times to forgive me for what I done since then. Randy Fox.
Randy you are a hoot , its hard to get angry at you that but for you to say that i am coming on here twistng words from you is like the pot calling the kettle black.I put the views that are out there regarding some dogs, of which we have all had our say, and we have even agrred to disagree on gina v baby, and i agrreed it could be either i wouldnt swear to it, but then we get to blind billy, and boom your head explodes because you or anyone else can make the hat fit can you, and you are
now trying to turn the tables on me to somehow try to make this whole thing go away just incase someone actually works it out and realises that mayfield yes mayfield was correct along with more than a few dogmen from your time randy who didnt buy it for a new york minute .Now im damn sure in your in website no one would get to say anything that didnt pass the randy fox seal of approval, especially any truth you dont like to hear, you would love ot silence me and others like me yet you proclaim that all you say when you post is a FACT wow randy how arrogant you are , and what facts did you say in your last few posts that had anything to do with the thread or any dogs disputed pedigree ? none you use your posts to rant about me telling the truth about billy and trying to make it seem like a crime , yet you have no proof to
contradict all the known evidence we have and floyds own words and timeline so im not saying anything that isnt known and out there so you might fool some people randy ,but its obvious to me that your not able to face the inevitable truth about blind billy and then eli which would mean your matrix would crumble under it .
I dont care if you dont agrree or anyone else, but dont accuse me of being a child, im the one putting forward the facts what are you doing but trying to put out a smokescreen but that gets blown away randy its built on nothing so gives nothing back of value , so when you stop your ranting and accuseing me of only wanting to have you or anyone else agree with me, thats not true, on all the other dogs, tombstone being a good example i have openly said that although i believe baby was the dam and you beleive gina was the dam i have accepted that it could be true either way , so i think that blows your talk about me only wanting everyone to agree with me out of the water.
But in blind billys case randy all i am doing is replying to all the posts directed at me but not one of you has given a realsitic theory based on more evidence (other than what if scenarios ), than we already have on both dibo and billy including floyds own words for more than 50 years , but that for some reason you want pretend doesnt exist and create a new story.
Your like the warren commision who wanted everyone to beleive in the lone gunman theory and the magic bullet when all the evidence that they hadnt destroyed pointed everywhere else but the lone gunman and the magic bullet theory.
Randy its always nice to know your so worried about me and the facts that you ar practically begging jack to ban me so you can rest easy , and that randy is the sign of a man who knows more than he wants to admit to , and a man who doesnt like a fair fight , but im right here randy make the evidence go away trump it with more than maybes and what ifs .there is more clear facts on billy than we have on any disputed dog in the game but you dont want to play ball , well i not here to convince myself, and if the horses dont want to be led to water well then they dont drink so i guess they stay thirsty.
By the way i see through your slick style you have of barbded comments towards mayfield in every post you make when you mention his name not just here but on every forum you are on, you use the old sheep dip trick of not saying outright nasty comments but constant negative things like how cold he was and how warm hearted you are to your dogs, but you dont say negative things about floyd or your friends do you then you use floyds commnet about his reply to don saying something about him Oh WELL THATS JUST DON trying to again create an image of don in a negative way just like you comment on thinking more highly of floyds as he was on a higher economic level than mayfield ,again all comments that had nothing to do with any dog story but were made solely to create a negative image of don trying show him in a bad light and floyd seem like a saint to push the eyes of people away from the only facts as you call them that we have which are the ones that show the truth
in this case randy , becasue if you had any proof other than your desire to make it true, by god you would have produced it in a heartbeat if anything that could prove mayfield wrong and floyd right , but i ask everyone to take note of how randy has never been able to post anything to do with billy that can disprove the fatcs we do have and that in every post where he mentions mayfield he always (after his clever intial i liked don comment) goes on to say things that have nothing to do with the dogs were talking about, but makes a personal sniping and barbed comments designed to assisinate dons character to make anything don may have said less believable even when its true , all i ask anyone to do is look at the facts we have and without making up what if scenarios , be honest either on here or to yourselves and understand what the truth is here and i think it wil be hard to come to any other conclusion based on the evidence and facts we have, that blind billy is not out of dibo and eli can then also be put in doubt and the high probabilty is that eli was indeed out of crybaby x cotton , and i am happy to leave it there guys, and as long as none of you comes back just attacking me for the sake of it i will not reply to avoid being called a ranter , but if you attack me and just make it personal rather than about trying to find out as best as we can how some famous dogs are bred ,then i will reply so please dont accuse me of ranting if i do , your post will be the reason i reply or not just remmeber that ok thank you.
Here we go again, here is another monkey wrench in the spokes so to speak of. I am fixing to really throw down some good ole hear say. There have been several articles written on the famed Henry dogs that Tudor used. Not all came black, some came snow white and sure other colors. Probably the earliest articles just speaking of his dogs are the most correct.
One of the articles on Jack Kelley's site had that same type article asking the question. Why all the black dogs Boudreaux suddenly came up with. For as I am concerned only he knows, I certainly do not know and as of today no longer care.
The story centers around AKA Dirty Harry and Scotty Nelson. Seems Scotty Nelson was told by (I do not know who). That Earl Tudor bought dogs from England from I assume the same source that the Henry dogs came from. ( Note I am Assuming a lot here). LOL
That Tudor had some of these dogs on into the mid 50's. That he kept two sets of record keeping and registered all those crosses under the Dibo line of dogs. That most of these Dogs came black or black brindle with even black gums. Were said to be very rough hard biting dogs, but in some cases liking deep gaminess. What was referred to as those crazy, hot to fight, red eyed black Henry dogs.
Now if that is some of the Truth about Mr. Tudor's dogs and I myself am not saying it is. Mayfield trying to claim he has the purest Blue Blooded Henry dogs is still a moot point. Being Tudor supposedly kept two sets of dog registries. Who if any, really got the most of the Henry breeding in their Tudor dogs. If this be true only Tudor knows who got what.
Now on the other hand, knowing how most of the older family's of USA dogs are bred. I say if you want a Truer bred Tudor Old Family bred dog/with the most known Henry breeding in it. According to much more accurate pedigrees that the UKC has.
You will find the last old family Tudor/Henry dogs is in Peggy Harper's AM Staff dogs that lived not far down the road from Mr. Maurice Carver. I was sitting at the serving table in the Bowman restaurant with Mr. Teal/Mr. E. Skinner eating breakfast, many years ago. Something came up about Carver and his dogs. That is when I heard that if Mrs. Harper got one of those staffs that would not refuse to fight any dog it saw. Became uncontrollable.
She called Mr. Carver, and he came and picked the dog up. The Staff was checked out and if showed deep gaminess etc. Was bred in his stock of dogs. Now once again (hear say) and if done no one knows how many times.
I have talked before about Mr. Ralph Dailey's last dogs, who lived in Sumter S.C. From the talk about staff x pits being crossed from Mr. Teal and Egan. A. Howle and self visited this older dog breeder in Sumter S.C.. To find he had some straight Tacoma/Doyle Staff dogs and some Tacoma/Doyle x Charles Medlin crossed dogs. We got a dog and bitch off the Tacoma/Doyle x Medlin cross.
These dogs were black and white and turned out to be very good dogs. We both being rank rookies and thinking we could go back to that well and get more like them. Matched the male and he took his death while giving out a lot of punishment and receiving it. Never made a bad move proving to be dead game. The bitch lost her life in a five minute freak roll accident on my Ginger bitch off Snake x Tina cross. Died in a matter of seconds without a whimper. When we lost her was both very upset.
We borrowed money from the bank and went back to get some more dogs from Mr. Dailey. That well had run dry as he had died. His wife gave away or had the remaining dogs put down. Took years of dog papers and all the UKC Blood line journals he had and much more to the dump. Offered us no useable info., told us to leave and never come back.
One of MR. Dailey's straight bred Staff bitch dogs that was popular in the Camden S.C. area. Was a bitch dog called Foots. She had won at least two or three matches and was a very good dog. Very strong well built light brindle bitch with white stocking feet. Hench the name Foots.
Foots was bred to the famed Kelly's Willie dog and to McNeil's (Young's) Chuck dog. I saw Foots and her pups off Chuck on McNeil's yard. Went back later in hopes of buying a couple of the pups. Foots and the pups were gone and McNeil did not want to say who had them. I suspected their had been some paper changing to cover up the Staff breeding.
Was one Bitch off the Willie x Foots breeding that a Black man owned. He kept this bitch in ready to go off the chain condition. Beat and killed a lot of dogs brought there just to whip her.
So it appears that maybe Tudor and Carver along with some local dog men did or may have used some Staff blood up into the mid 70's or so. Probably not today.
Mike Ferris used a lot of the Doyle/Tacoma dogs and just maybe, (just maybe) Tudor might have as well. Instead of spending money to ship Staff dogs from England. I would think it would cost good money back then to ship a Staff dog from England. I did not get the impression that Tudor was a wealthy man that could spend money in that fashion. Once again only he knew. If there is a will there is a way. Once again if the stories and rumors be true.
So, see how I have added interesting true story's with some rumors or hear say that can not be proven today or back then. If one has well built, good acting dogs today. All the dogs look a like and not a Heinz 57 assortment of looking dogs. You are ahead of the game. Only one thing left to do some day. That is the oil checking/ culling process/matching process that will prove the real deal Truth for all to see and know. Cheers
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