DISPUTED OR FAKE PEDS FROM THE PAST AND PRESENT .

[CYJ]

One last thought on this matter. If the breeding of Mayfield's Little Cotton to Start's Cry Baby was very important to Don. He got Cry Baby back from Boudreaux. Why did he not make the breeding again when Cry Baby came back in heat?

Surely both dogs had not both died in less than 6 to 8 months. Even the Lightning I and II dog had similar breeding to the Mayfield's little Cotton dog. Of all those dog bloodlines Don had. I liked those Lightning I & II dogs a lot. Believe he got some good match dogs off that line. Cheers

[projectx]

One last thought on this matter. If the breeding of Mayfield's Little Cotton to Start's Cry Baby was very important to Don. He got Cry Baby back from Boudreaux. Why did he not make the breeding again when Cry Baby came back in heat?

Surely both dogs had not both died in less than 6 to 8 months. Even the Lightning I and II dog had similar breeding to the Mayfield's little Cotton dog. Of all those dog bloodlines Don had. I liked those Lightning I & II dogs a lot. Believe he got some good match dogs off that line. Cheers

Hi CYJ well who knows maybe he did try, i can tell you myself that getting breedings done isnt always easy , and of course don did have other dogs to breed and maybe he didnt have both anymore , we have to remmber don only put crybay on floyds ayrd as he was having some trouble at home and maybe crybaby wasnt the only one he farmed out at the time, but
CYJ i would ask you do you think that blind billy and eli are bred as paprered , and if so how do you square the dobs if they are as believed to be correct ? That question is like the magic bullet thoery that the warren commision put out to cover up the kennedy assasination, and if we to try make blind billy out of dibo it is about as unbelievable as that magic bullet theory , but hey miracles do happen dont they .

[ragedog10]

The interview with Floyd was in 1989 I believe could be wrong, Billy was born in 1952 it was 37 years later did you ever stop to think maybe he simply forgot? That would be a honest mistake seeing how so much time had passed. But really none of us know and have no way of knowing , the only reason I mentioned style is because lines throw similar traits on a consistent basis. I think you're heart is in the right place but you are reading to much into this conspiracy theory. I hope you get some closure on this subject, I ve been around these dogs a long time and there s always someone who knows the truth about a great dog. Best of luck Ole Man

[projectx]

The interview with Floyd was in 1989 I believe could be wrong, Billy was born in 1952 it was 37 years later did you ever stop to think maybe he simply forgot? That would be a honest mistake seeing how so much time had passed. But really none of us know and have no way of knowing , the only reason I mentioned style is because lines throw similar traits on a consistent basis. I think you're heart is in the right place but you are reading to much into this conspiracy theory. I hope you get some closure on this subject, I ve been around these dogs a long time and there s always someone who knows the truth about a great dog. Best of luck Ole Man

Hi ragedog, floyd may have got many things wrong just like we all can and do , but that interview and the story of blind billy and eli has never changed and floyd has been saying the same things including the dates from day one and long before 89 that wasnt the first time ragedog and people were questioning his pedigree for blind billy back in the 60s and floyd always told the same story he told in 89 , so rather than you
or anyone else wanting to find a way to give floyd the benfit of the doubt why can't we just be honest about it and lets
stop trying to make excuses for him when its obvious, and its a perfect example of that old saying that you had better make sure you remmber your lies , because if you dont they will end up finding you out, and thats exactly what happend with
blind billy and eli, and as for closure i dont need it, closure is for people who still need to know the truth about something ,and i got closure a long time ago to satisfy me as to what is true, but maybe you and others who just cant bring themselves to see it are much more in need of closure not me, and maybe the closure as i have said before should be for mayfield ,as he is
the man who has been called mad crazy and jealous for telling us the truth, so maybe if you gave mayfield the same break and benefit of the doubt that you are willing to give floyd
eventough the evidence of dobs is overwhelming without any of the other circumstantial
and hearsay evidence which i havent even said much about ,then maybe just maybe
justice would be done and then there would be closure for everyone dont you think so ragedog.

[Officially Retired]

If Mayfield was so smart, and knew so much about breeding dogs and breeding theory, then why wasn't he more successful as a breeder compared to those he talked about?

None of what he has said is a "fact" ... it's merely "what he says" ...

Jack

PS: A dog born in March of 51 could easily sire a litter in 52 ... and would be 18 months old by September. Could also have been bred to on Heinzl's yard for all we know. Birthdates could be wrong on the papers, etc.

[projectx]

If Mayfield was so smart, and knew so much about breeding dogs and breeding theory, then why wasn't he more successful as a breeder compared to those he talked about?

None of what he has said is a "fact" ... it's merely "what he says" ...

Jack

PS: A dog born in March of 51 could easily sire a litter in 52 ... and would be 18 months old by September. Could also have been bred to on Heinzl's yard for all we know. Birthdates could be wrong on the papers, etc.

Jack mayfield was a very good breeder and bred some very good dogs and i think to say otherwise is being very hard indeed i think in texas alone the yards he helped with dogs from his family never mind the others he sent to dogmen
form texas to canada and california to new york who were more than happy with them and would still today wish they could gets dogs bred like
that mayfield sent them.
As for waht mayfield said being fact a fact,well i dont think i am saying everything he said is a fact, of course theres always another possiblity, but i think you yourself agreed with the tombstone theory which was like most things that have a lot of hearsay and circumstantial evidence and gut feelings rather than stone cold facts, we use our inteligence to try put the pieces in place and make the correct decsion on them as best as we can and to our satisfaction.

I do however think that although their is an outside chance that dibo born in march 21 of 1951 might have been the sire to a dog , in this instance blind billy , we would need to change up the dates and facts that we know and have never been disputed or had any doubt thrown on them untill you said it about the dobs , and it seems odd that we would rather move heaven and earth just to make floyds story fit rather than use the facts or things that we know from dibos history and floyds own words which as i said he has been sayiig since the 60s but would rather decide not to see what is right in front of our noses
instead.

Ok lets look at the what if scenario of it might be true, well unless anyone else can prove that dibos dobs is incorrect, then i think we need to take that as a starting point for this case.So dibos dob march 21 1951 we also know and untill
there is any proof otherwise dibo wasnt bred by anyone untill earl tudor got him on his yard, and that was at around 3 years old at least and so his first breeding may have been even later ,but lets say he was 2 just to give floyd a break shall we, so that would mean ,(and im being very generous is giving floyd back a year here), that dibo was on earls yard in march of 1953 (which he wasnt ) but blind billy by floyds own words from the hr time he got billy onwards was that billy was born in 1952 which still means its impossible, unless of course we play the lets make anything possible game and
every dob or knowledge we have on any dog in doubt then we can make it fit the story.

Just like you saying well maybe heinzl bred him, well maybe he did ,but we do know heinzl never thought much of the dog , and infact thats the first time anyone has ever said that as an excuse for a what if scenario on blind billy, but then
floyd also said he got billy by trading some roosters for him, and theres never been any mention that heinzl ever bred blind billy.

So like most things that dont fit when we try to make them fit they never do fit properly, and like i said with the evidence we have and even being generous on the dates ( which im sure no one would do for mayfield)just for the purpose of this thread , i dont see how an intleigent man can make the leap from what is believable to something that doesnt make realistic sense at all .

Jack with the tombstone dog for example , eventhough i believe baby was his dam as you do,and not based on mayfields own words alone or his overall gut feeling , becasue he himself was never 100% satistisfied enough to breed tombstone
eventhough he was sure baby was the dam, and even with maloney on audio confirming that and then some 5 mins later
changes it to say the gina bitch ,mayfield wouldnt take the chance of breeding him into his family , and then years later
a dogman from arkansas who mayfield didnt know personally but i am sure someone on here will know who he was, called mayfield and during the conversation and he asks mayfiled what he thought about tombstone and if he liked him etc and why he
never shows up in any of mayfields pedigrees, and mayfield tells him that he couldnt for sure get the truth about the dam to satisfy him so
he sold him but with breeding rights just in case he could ever get the truth .Well on hearing that this the man tells mayfield that he was a friend of bob wallace who was a much older man than this fellow, and bob wallace told this man that
when maloney claimed that gina was on his yard whelping tombstone bobs said gina was onn his yard, and mayfield says, well im not surpirsed, that makes sense to me, i never did believe tombstone was out of that gina bitch ,and you telling me that story
about bob wallace confirms that to me, and mayfield then says if bob wallace said that i would believe him , infact i would beleive
just about anything bob wallace had to say , as wallace was known as a very honest and direct man who prided himself on his honesty .Now that is an example of a scenario that although i tend to believe the mayfield gut feeling and wallace scenario,it is more than possible that mayfield could have been wrong and that wallace was mistaken and that maloney
was telling the truth and gina was the dam, there is no conclusive evidence to really prove one theory wrong or one theory right, this one is more a case of piecing the puzzle toggether with the pieces we have and making a decison based on the picture as a whole , but i would be the first to say we will just have to leave it as is and move on as it would be unfair
regardless of gut feeling to just changes it now, so that to me is an example of a reasonable what if scenarios being realistically possible, but not the blind billy story.

I am not trying to convince anyone im just putting it out there, and if we look the evidence without trying to play the what if scenario then of all the dogs that have been talked about so far in this thread , and probably every other dog that will ever be talked about
in a thread like this, i dont think we will ever have more proof about a dog than we do on billy,and even without adding in all the circumstantial and hearsay evidence that we could add to the blind billy and eli story i think just on dobs alone and the known story makes it very hard to say its not true, but if people want to beleive floyds version
or what i believe is the true version thats fine by me , take care .

[Officially Retired]

Jack mayfield was a very good breeder and bred some very good dogs and i think to say otherwise is being very hard indeed i think in texas alone the yards he helped with dogs from his family never mind the others he sent to dogmen
form texas to canada and california to new york who were more than happy with them and would still today wish they could gets dogs bred like
that mayfield sent them.

We simply disagree. People being "happy" with a man's dogs means nothing. Hell, there are millions of people who are "happy" with pomeranians.

What we're talking about is producing seriously good dogs that truly affect the game. And while Mayfield may have bred some good dogs, his influence was negligible when compared to his peers about whom he speaks (Carver, Tudor, Boudreaux). Mayfield's influence as a breeder was nowhere near these individuals'.

Does that make him wrong? Not necessarily. I am sure there is merit in some of what he says, but I sure wouldn't be hanging on his every word like you seem to.

Jack

[ragedog10]

We simply disagree. People being "happy" with a man's dogs means nothing. Hell, there are millions of people who are "happy" with pomeranians.

What we're talking about is producing seriously good dogs that truly affect the game. And while Mayfield may have bred some good dogs, his influence was negligible when compared to his peers about whom he speaks (Carver, Tudor, Boudreaux). Mayfield's influence as a breeder was nowhere near these individuals'.

Does that make him wrong? Not necessarily. I am sure there is merit in some of what he says, but I sure wouldn't be hanging on his every word like you seem to.

Jack

Amen

[projectx]

We simply disagree. People being "happy" with a man's dogs means nothing. Hell, there are millions of people who are "happy" with pomeranians.

What we're talking about is producing seriously good dogs that truly affect the game. And while Mayfield may have bred some good dogs, his influence was negligible when compared to his peers about whom he speaks (Carver, Tudor, Boudreaux). Mayfield's influence as a breeder was nowhere near these individuals'.

Does that make him wrong? Not necessarily. I am sure there is merit in some of what he says, but I sure wouldn't be hanging on his every word like you seem to.

Jack

Jack im surprised that you dont know more about the dogs mayfield dealt to some top dogmen around the usa, but thats fine, but like i said from the south to cannada and if you look inside texas thers more than enough men who kept his line
and were happy to ahve it, as it was the purest of the dibo blood ,and the men who got it knew what they were getting
in dons days.
OK if i was hanging onto every word of dons i would have to hang onto all of them which i dont, as otherwise i would not hesitate to say that there is no doubt that tombstone is out of baby, but i dont as i agree their is every chance it could be
gina, but after weighing up the evidence to hand my gut feeling like yours jack was baby but it could be gina, and you jack
agreed with don that you did feel it was baby so are you not also agreeing as you say i am as it was from my first
post on this thread about tombstone and dons story and audios that you thought that it made sense , so you also are in agreement with mayfield based on the same things i had to work with ,namely the evidence or gut feeling based on the hearsay back story and audio tapes along with a knolwedge of the breeding that did and didnt make sense to do.

On blind billy jack i am in no doubt, and if you and others want to play the (lets make up all the possible scenarios that
might lead to dibo having been bred before earl got him so it makes dibo billys sire)then lets say the same thing about every
breeding ever made before dna was around so we might aswell tear up all the peds from before 1980 and start again.Or we
could do what makes sense, and that is use the brain we have the overall evidence both hearsay (the fact that floyd never
had black dogs before eli came along /other dogmen had seen crybaby nursing the pups/even offered a pup which would have been eli etcetc) then add the dobs in which for more than 50 years in both dbios and billys case no one untill this thread
has ever claimed may be wrong or mistaken and no story of dibo ever being bred before getting to earls yard and even floyds own words as to what year billy was born has never changed , but we want to help floyd by saying maybe he got the dob wrong or maybe dibos dob is wrong , but i can tell you this , and i may myself be wrong but its something i had forgotten and its this, if i buy a dog from you i know i bought it from you so that shouldnt change should it , so why would floyd have told two versions of how he got billy , he has said for sure that he traded earl 3 roosters for billy and then im sure ive seen and definetly heard that floyd also said he got billy from his uncle , but im sure someone will correct me if im wrong, but what im saying is, lets not try to alter what we know at least to be true which is dibos story without trying to add all these scenarios to make it look like dibo is billys sire, then i would say ok make the case ,but it has to be believable the pieces have to fit, not just saying ,well a one year old dog could sire a litter ,or what if heinzl bred him etc etc
without making the pieces fit, all they really are are unrealistic what if scenarios .

To make all or any of the scenarios mentioned in this thread and many others fit better than the actually evidence we already have, it would make the whole thing so over conveluted complex and intricate to such a riddiculous extent
,that it would be easier to find out exactly who killed president kennedy and actually prosecute them than make
the what if dibo scenarios stand up to serious scrutiny, unless of course we decide we want to live in the caos
that is the world of what if scenarios and overlook the obvious, then i agreree anything is possible.

[evolutionkennels]

Jack im surprised that you dont know more about the dogs mayfield dealt to some top dogmen around the usa, but thats fine, but like i said from the south to cannada and if you look inside texas thers more than enough men who kept his line
and were happy to ahve it, as it was the purest of the dibo blood ,and the men who got it knew what they were getting
in dons days.
OK if i was hanging onto every word of dons i would have to hang onto all of them which i dont, as otherwise i would not hesitate to say that there is no doubt that tombstone is out of baby, but i dont as i agree their is every chance it could be
gina, but after weighing up the evidence to hand my gut feeling like yours jack was baby but it could be gina, and you jack
agreed with don that you did feel it was baby so are you not also agreeing as you say i am as it was from my first
post on this thread about tombstone and dons story and audios that you thought that it made sense , so you also are in agreement with mayfield based on the same things i had to work with ,namely the evidence or gut feeling based on the hearsay back story and audio tapes along with a knolwedge of the breeding that did and didnt make sense to do.

On blind billy jack i am in no doubt, and if you and others want to play the (lets make up all the possible scenarios that
might lead to dibo having been bred before earl got him so it makes dibo billys sire)then lets say the same thing about every
breeding ever made before dna was around so we might aswell tear up all the peds from before 1980 and start again.Or we
could do what makes sense, and that is use the brain we have the overall evidence both hearsay (the fact that floyd never
had black dogs before eli came along /other dogmen had seen crybaby nursing the pups/even offered a pup which would have been eli etcetc) then add the dobs in which for more than 50 years in both dbios and billys case no one untill this thread
has ever claimed may be wrong or mistaken and no story of dibo ever being bred before getting to earls yard and even floyds own words as to what year billy was born has never changed , but we want to help floyd by saying maybe he got the dob wrong or maybe dibos dob is wrong , but i can tell you this , and i may myself be wrong but its something i had forgotten and its this, if i buy a dog from you i know i bought it from you so that shouldnt change should it , so why would floyd have told two versions of how he got billy , he has said for sure that he traded earl 3 roosters for billy and then im sure ive seen and definetly heard that floyd also said he got billy from his uncle , but im sure someone will correct me if im wrong, but what im saying is, lets not try to alter what we know at least to be true which is dibos story without trying to add all these scenarios to make it look like dibo is billys sire, then i would say ok make the case ,but it has to be believable the pieces have to fit, not just saying ,well a one year old dog could sire a litter ,or what if heinzl bred him etc etc
without making the pieces fit, all they really are are unrealistic what if scenarios .

To make all or any of the scenarios mentioned in this thread and many others fit better than the actually evidence we already have, it would make the whole thing so over conveluted complex and intricate to such a riddiculous extent
,that it would be easier to find out exactly who killed president kennedy and actually prosecute them than make
the what if dibo scenarios stand up to serious scrutiny, unless of course we decide we want to live in the caos
that is the world of what if scenarios and overlook the obvious, then i agreree anything is possible.

The sheep Clarise... Tell me about the sheep.