((( Great Pit Dogs who were NOT APBTs )))

[Officially Retired]

The breeding Duke to Ringo's Ruby (a daughter to psycho) produced a couple of winners if I recall correctly. This was way before my time so I have no first hand experience. I have some experience of todays staffords though. I must say, if we take in consideration how few fanciers working and breeding their stock the way it should be done the quality is remarkable high. I'm not saying the staffords are in line with the pitbulls, but the worst dogs I've seen were well bred apbts, not staffords. And as Gaba said, if the fanciers hadn't switched to apbts it would be very interesting to see were the staffords would've been today. I have no doubt they would be as good as the pitbulls.

That is an interesting observation, because I have seen plenty of APBT specimens, off of supposedly "good lines," that were complete and utter garbage. Hell, the worst Poncho dogs are at least game bums!

So it is kind of a key statement that the staffords never really dip as low as some of the bulldogs get. And if some of the staffords are still competitive, then I don't have any doubts either that at least a small breeding group could be established and developed into a consistently-good strain.

Jack

[skipper]

That is an interesting observation, because I have seen plenty of APBT specimens, off of supposedly "good lines," that were complete and utter garbage. Hell, the worst Poncho dogs are at least game bums!

So it is kind of a key statement that the staffords never really dip as low as some of the bulldogs get. And if some of the staffords are still competitive, then I don't have any doubts either that at least a small breeding group could be established and developed into a consistently-good strain.

Jack

This is only my personal observation and opinion. Would be great to hear what others have to say. Although they most often aren't as good as the best apbts. I have never seen one that where complete garbage. The main thing that the staffords seem to lack is natural air. I haven't seen enough to make a general observation for the whole breed.