Swimmers

[Officially Retired]

True,you never said all breeders were bad. You just put across that i was pretty much a fool for having a swimmer puppy. Albeit yourself too.
If i left the pup too long then i am pretty sure that this will have been due to the age of the pup & not knowing the problem at that time. I have never been one for interfering for the 1st 3 week,other than a daily quick look,but i do recollect noticing the problem before 3 week.
Did i now what the problem was ? Not until i took it to the vet.
Did i leave it too late to start correcting the issue at around 3 week ?
I would have thought that all pups with the problem will be overweight ?

You just defined your own negligence sir.

Did I not say that negligent puppy whelping causes swimmers? You just told me that you didn't bother with the pups for the first 3 weeks of their lives "other than a quick look." That is negligence. The first 3 weeks of a pup's life are the most critical, and yet you're nowhere to be found during this critical period.

I advised you that people create the conditions for the problem to exist with their set up ... and I further advised that if it gets really bad, then it's because the breeder isn't paying attention ... and here you are basically admitting that you don't pay attention. And, yes, that has been me on a couple of occasions. We all can be guilty of negligence, can we not? However, you have told me "not paying attention for the first 3 weeks" is your usual practice, but it sure as heck isn't mine.

Now, regarding being a fool, I only applied this statement to someone who would kill a pup whose defect was correctable and was ultimately their own fault. If you did this, then yes you were a fool to do so. I am sorry, but that is my opinion. Therefore, if you killed the pup, then you are guilty of this. If not, then it doesn't apply to you.

However, I absolutely believe that if your habit is "not to look at the pups for the first 3 weeks," then YES you are a negligent breeder. On Day 1, for example, pups may need help because the bitch has bad milk. Other pups may not be able to nurse effectively for the first few days. If you're not there to notice the pups are crying, acting bad, or pushed off to the side, then I very much believe you are negligent.

Instead of getting reactive and defensive, how about a look into the mirror and saying, "Maybe the guy has a point." I mean, seriously, how can you possibly call yourself a "conscientious" breeder in the same sentence you say "you don't even bother to monitor the pups until they're 3 weeks." It's absurd. I am not being mean, I am telling you the truth you asked me for.

My own practice is the exact opposite of yours: my pups sleep in a crate, in my room, and I check them constantly until they're 3 weeks of age, and are able to see and move around on their own. At that point is when I move them out into a starter pen with their mother. I am HANDS ON when the pups are at their most delicate, while you are "hands off" ...

My post was not to say i am right & you are wrong,or to get into a debate.
Your post was informative,but rather than lay the blame at the breeder,you could have been more constructive in the case
of it happening to others.

Yes you are debating me, and you are simply wrong. Why should I not lay blame with the breeder, when it is breeder negligence that causes the problem? Would you like me to make up a different reason, or do you want me to tell it to you like it is?

You asked me what caused the condition, and what to do to correct it, and I told you. What else would you have me do?

Although I laid the blame on the breeder, I was being constructive. Identifying negligence for what it is, so it can be corrected in the future, IS constructive. What you need to do is not be so defensive. Your protocol was the cause of the problem. Denial or self-justification isn't helping you understand or correct the problem.

This was around 10yr ago so it would be wrong for me to say what bedding i used. Today they have what we call over here a "vet blanket" with shredded waxed paper.

Wax paper doesn't seem to be a good idea to me, as wax is slippery.

There was a very valid reason for me leaving this female alone & not interfering. It is not an excuse on my behalf,but she did kill most of the litter,leaving 2. I witnessed one event.

Well, I can't speak with authority on your reasoning, but I do know that fat pups and slippery conditions create swimmers, and I also know if it gets real bad then somebody wasn't paying attention, and you have done nothing here but confirm what I have said.

We all have different opinions based on our experiences. Although i have never bred as many litters as yourself,i have been around the dogs for a long time.

Being "around dogs a long time" doesn't mean much. I know a man who's been in the fastest of fast lanes longer than you or I have been alive, but I constantly had to help him with his breedings and in saving his pups, because of his slip-shod breeding practices. As you know, my greatest experience in dogs is as a breeder, you asked me for my opinion on what causes this breeding problem, and I answered your questions exactly. I am not trying to be mean, but I don't sugar-coat anything either.

If anything,then hopefully it gives others a wee bit knowledge on how to prevent this happening.
Appreciate your input Jack.

I hope, after the sting of truth goes away, that the information I provided does help you.

As Benjamin Franklin said, "Those things that hurt, instruct."

However, good advice can only help if the one asking for it pays attention and listens to it.

Good luck,

Jack