WHAT IS THE BEST WORMER

[Officially Retired]

http://purepermaguard.com/diatomaceous-earth-study.php
http://www.ehow.com/about_6511644_diato ... evels.html
http://www.phdproducts.com/main/phdpage.asp?page=141
I think it boils down to what you like and are will to do .... there are good wormers everwhere ,so it really choice.

It is clear you don't know the difference between an actual scientific study and a "published opinion."

What is interesting also is that, if you actually read your own links critically, even that "pro DE website" basically never directly states that DE kills intestinal worms. What they do is beat around the bush alot. Their reports on chickens didn't breathe a word about "worm control," they just confirmed the report I already posted: namely that chickens fed DE were larger and their eggs were healthier, but it didn't say a single thing about worms, precisely because it doesn't work for worms. So we're all in agreement that DE is a fine food supplement; however what it has NOT been proven to do is kill intestinal worms. Worming your dogs is not a matter of "belief" (or what you "like"); effective worming is a matter of what really does work and avoiding what really does not work.

By the same token, the writers cleverly switched the topic on a Texas A&M Study on intestinal parasites, they switched the topic from worms (because DE didn't work) to "healthier occupants," which it has been proven that DE does improve health and reproductive vitality. (I also noticed how neither article did provide the reference link to the actual study, so you could read them for yourself, they just "interpreted it" for you ... and cleverly switched the topic from worming to mere "health and size," without getting into the specifics.

In the end, there still remains ZERO cited scientific evidence that DE really does work for intestinal worms ... yet there does seem to be ample evidence that it is a great supplement for health in other ways.

Cheers,

Jack

[Officially Retired]

Regarding Goats

• Diatomaceous Earth
  "Diatomaceous earth is fossilized unicellular marine or fresh water algae called diatoms. It is used as a food ingredient (read the labels on processed foods) and in swimming pool filters. There are cautions about using the swimming pool grade for feeding animals in that it can be contaminated with heavy metals whereas the food grade must be proven to have non toxic levels of heavy metals. Diatomaceous earth has been used for many years for control of various pests from grain weevils to houseflies. Goat producers that use it for deworming control often mix it with the mineral supplement or in the feed. Most claims are that it extends the time between dewormings although some claim that it kills worms in goats. There have been 4 or 5 scientific studies and the data consistently show that diatomaceous earth does not kill worms in goats although one study did show that at a very high level (5% of the diet), it had a slight effect. There is speculation that it may help fecal pellets to dry out faster which could reduce the success of eggs developing into infective L3 larvae. Research conducted on this aspect has not been conclusive. It is very difficult to study the claim that diatomaceous earth increases the time between dewormings."

I want to find the links to these studies!

[BIGFLA73]

LIKE I SAID ITS A CHOICE...AND AFTER USEING IT FOR 3 WEEKS AND TAKING 6 DOGS(THOSE ARE THE ONES THAT I TOOK) TO THE VET FOR FECAL EXAMS I WILL KEEP USEING IT .... AND AFTER SEEING THE LACK OF "SCIENTIFIC" RESEARCH ON THE EFFECTS OF DE AS A WORMER IN A "DOG" I WILL JUST TAKE THE TESTIMONIALS OF THE VETS AND OTHERS INCLUDING MYSELF AS "MY" PROOF. AND THANKS FOR MAKING ME READ UP ON IT BECAUSE IT HAS MANY MORE BENEFICIAL EFFECTS FOR MY ANIMALS AND YARD .......

[Officially Retired]

LOL, I do agree on the "many more good effects" part, which is why I am going to use it too ... I just won't be using it for worms as there has been no published documentation proving it works in that capacity

But there is plenty of research to support its use as a food supplement.

Jack

[BIGFLA73]

A little better info. http://www.thebestcontrol.com/DE/Chapter40.pdf

[Officially Retired]

That is not a valid scientific study, it is a website for a book and to sell products. Posting links to mere commercial websites is not scientific proof.

The scientific study the author referred to was not identified completely, nor even by name. The only actual governmental letter simply indicated that DE does not harm the internal organs of the animals, but mentioned nothing of any health benefits at all, let alone confirmed that DE was even wormer at all.

The difference between what you're posing and what I am posing is I have posted actual studies by accredited universities directly stating that their actual research showed DE does not kill worms.
You keep posting links to commercial enterprises "claiming" that alleged studies "showed" DE work, but no links to the actual studies themselves have yet been provided, thus making them empty claims.

You need to recognize the difference between the actual published scientific study itself ... and some guy trying to sell a book and a products "saying" he read one.

Jack

[BIGFLA73]

Like I said before this is "better info" I'm not trying to prove anything nor did I state that this is a study ... I know what I have experienced and I am cool with that

[Officially Retired]

Unfortunately, it really is not any "better" ... it is exactly the same thing: a claim from a commercial website, a bunch of "testimonials," yet with zero actual scientific reference documents to back it up.

[Officially Retired]

Actual study from the Cambridge Journal:

• "On day 0, the average count for all calves was over 70 eggs per g faeces (epg) for trichostrongyle type eggs; counts for Nematodirus sp., Strongyloides sp., Trichuris sp. and Capillaria sp. were negligible. CTRL and DE steers had higher parasite levels than CONV steers during the 1st (P < 0·01) and 2nd months (P < 0·05) after treatment."

CTRL = No wormer at all
DE = Cows treated with DE
CONV = Standard Wormer (Albendazole)


Jack

[Marooda]

This is not blowing sushine in no one ass, but the PBB is the shit bottom line, as a student of this hobby I am more intelligent in caring and breeding my animals. Even if I do not follow everything 100%, the book has given me a path to walk on were I can modify to my yard while still following the guidelines. Prior to the book I was getting ripped off by vets, and petstores......I didn't know that feedstores or Tractor Supply existed prior to this book, I didn't know that the same shit you give to livestock stock you can give to dogs, hell I didn't know that a form of cancer can be rectified buy two simple tools DID YOU!? I thought that kibble was the way to go and big amounts of poop was a good sign ........So anyone who has purchased the book, more than likely, didn't know that majority of what vets do, can be done by you (with a little common sense of course) at home, or a somewhat experienced person purchased this book to get further ahead or to get different or better ideas to care for their animals.

Are their other ways to do something, of coure no one should be all out clueless, but I almost 100% Louisiana Guarantee that you will refer back to your Little Black Book!

like I said, I am not blowing sunshine in no one ass, but I am a better person/handler because of this book and I can't believe someone will give up their secrets like this. And not to mention this Board that provides a plethora of information on caring for your dogs. And lastly if you feel that your ideas are better, write your own book!

Respectfully,
Marooda