CYJ can answer to what Red Boy was back then. He is one of the last 'first hand knowledge' people left in the dogs.

I can only attest to what I seen off Red Boy (as a kid). Thise dogs were big, slow and dumb but they were super intense and would scratch to a sign post. For the most part they would take far more than they would give. There were very few that separated themselves with brains. The percentage of game dogs was pretty high but the ones that stood out were the ones that could bite.

What I grew up in never looked at gameness as a factor as it would be better said it was considered a 'given'. It was sort of understood.

From there mouth became the primary factor in whether as dog had a chance or was given a chance to show. The Red Boy dogs I remember being on the yard for more than a couple years were the ones that could bite.

Later on people bred 'smart' dogs to the family and in turn got some smart dogs here and there.

From there, and not saying it is fact or just how things are remembered, it seemed like people went to Red Boy to fix everything bulldog. Almost like Red Boy could make game dogs out of Cocker Spaniels. Every now and then a a really good one would pop out from those early crosses. The myths of Red Boy being the 'be all-end all' of game dogs really started to grow and spread.

The popularity started to rise and soon it was skyrocketing. Those early on third, fourth and fifth generation Red Boy dogs were 'bred back and forth to be pure' and from there the prices went up and the ability to stand alone went down.

I am no expert on Red Boy dogs and I don't have personal experience with every family nor every strain. I think back to those dogs I was around as a kid and when one of the dogs bred heavier on the Red Boy popped up that looked, acted and performed like those childhood Red Boy dogs I try to latch on to them.

From there I landed on the Mims family and the Mims strain of Red Boy dogs. His dogs were basically three-way crosses. The better ones that I had were 50% Red Boy and then a blend of Snooty and Bolio for the other half. It was some Vindicator and Paladin blood in the back but for the most part it was Red Boy-Snooty-Bolio.

We had a bunch of high percentage game dogs over the years from the Mims family. A lot of these dogs were super smart, slick as glass and were offensively minded head dogs. For a family, mouth was average to above average but every now and then there some freak mouthed dogs in the mix.

Even at 50% or 3/4, every now and then we would get a big, slow and dumb dog that reminded me of the dogs I first known as Red Boy dogs. Almost like Red Boy had navigated his way thru 30-40 years of breeding, crosses included.

I am not sure what Sheba threw. The Cottingham dogs were known to be game. The Cottinghams matched a lot of dogs, and they came out with a lot of dogs that came out, won by outlasting the other and did not come back out afterwards. They had a number of picked up game dogs. They were not known for being super biters nor being super smart. But just like the Red Boy dogs I knew as a kid they would make scratch.

The really heavy Red Boy dogs that I have seen do good things and almost look like stand alone dogs is when someone using different strains of Red Boy dogs together. One of the better ones I have seen was a dog called Bubba who was bred down from Hardcore Kennels Chance to some of the Pee Dee Kennels Red Boy dogs. That family was bred to a Mims/Cottingham/Medlin's Outlaw blood. This dog was maybe 3/4 or better but won a ton of matches. His owner would pull him off the chain anytime something close to his chain weight was open. The dog was big, slow and had a ton of mouth. I would not say he was super smart but I will say he would not trade and swap being happy getting the short end of the stick just to have one end of the stick.

EWO