Beating the Red Boy 'dead horse'

[Einstein]

EWO,

Redboy's sire or Redboy himself?

Ms. Marlowe's yard boy/neighbor told me it was redboys sire that came from some one and his mother is papered correctly

[apeman]

Ms. Marlowe's yard boy/neighbor told me it was redboys sire that came from some one and his mother is papered correctly

[EWO]

I have heard it both ways. The first time it was Red Boy himself. Then another time it was the sire of the litter that Red Boy came from but papered as Jeff.

As stated, I don't know. I was not there. This is the point where a person's character is questioned and I am not a big fan of doing so, especially putting someone on blast on the internet. LOL

I'm a Red Boy fan. I will say of the Red Boy dogs Mims Jiggs has thrown those dogs that I picture in my head from 40 years ago. The Holland dogs did not do much for me until I seen dogs down out of Cadillac II. The Cadillac II dogs are about as close to stand alone pure Red Boy dogs that has been out in a really, really long time. They flashed back to those Jocko-Hank type dogs of Mr. Jackson and Mr. Chavis. Thick hided, durable, rough ass dogs, lot of forward moving power. Go figure.

The Jocko Red Boy dogs, if theories are correct, would be 3/4 Krebbs type dogs and a 1/4 out on the Hank dog. The Jocko-Red Boy dog breed so consistently you can see one a mile away. Like take one picture and they all seem to fit the mold.

But again, pure conjecture. LOL

EWO

[CYJ]

Ditto EWO. One can go back and read my Red Boy articles. I tend to lean toward the Calvin Kreebs dogs/William Cable/ Heavy Stidham etc. On that big Red/Red Nose dog that was in the back of that pickup. Iron Side Kennels wanted that dog to be a Red Devil bred dog.

That dog could have not been Red Boy full grown. You have to account for that Catch weight dog being bred to Mc'leod's Susie Q and that bitch having puppies which one was Red Boy.

Red Boy was first Mr. Wilbur Martin's Red Boy who lived in Dillion S.C. He owned Red boy up till the dog was around 14 to 16 months old. Mr. Martin's dog yard was based on Cotton's Bullitt II/Loposays' Colby/ Loposay's Tiger Jack bought from Mr. Carver.

Mr. Martin bred his various bitches to Red Boy. I owned one of them named Young's Liz. I also for awhile owned one of Red Boy's Full Sibling brothers named Miles' Bouncer. Now Mr. Martin knew Mr. Teal and Loposay very well. Either he bought Red Boy as a pup from Mr. Mc'leod or Mr. Teal sold him the Red Boy dog or farmed Red boy to him. I do not recall ever asking Mr. Martin how he got Red Boy. Mr. Mc'leod could have given Red Boy and his Sibling brother Big Mack to Mr. Teal as stud fee pups.

I tried to be nice and just say that Bass bought Red Boy from Mr. Martin. According to Mr. Martin that was not the case. long as I knew him he remained bitter towards Bass on losing Red boy. Mr. Martin was a very bad Acholic, if he started drinking. Would take days for his wife to sober him back up. He told me and A. Howle that Bass took him off and got him drunk. And through some sort of hook and crook deal. Got Red Boy. That was his story.

So the next owner of Red Boy was R.E. Bass. He named the dog Tramp Red Boy. Then later the last owner was Katie Marlowe. Red Boy lived a long dog life and died on Katie's dog yard.

You can click on Red boy's pedigree and read about his siblings. I saw all these dogs including Red Boy. The Mac dog that Mr. Teal had on his dog yard was a extra big catch weight dog. Howard used Mac a lot to check his dogs for gameness. Mac was undershot, and was a hard charging always on you type dog. A real bruiser.

I said all this to say it made more sense to me that the (SIRE) of Red Boy and his siblings was a Calvin Kreeb /William Cable/ heavy in Stidham bred dog. Cheers

[EWO]

Real history. Much appreciated.

I missed your call. We are working a ton of hours and splitting shifts to get every thing covered. Not complaining.

I will try to get back with the next few days.

EWO

[CYJ]

To not create any confusion on the V. Jackson's Hank dog's pedigree. Read the narrative on this dog's pedigree. What I was trying to do is give one a idea of how the Hank dog looked like and type build. V. J. I believe had no pictures of his Hank dog. The Hank Dog was deep chested/ lean supple type dog, like the Klaus' Zeke dog and Indian Bolio. Head shape was more like the Indian Bolo dog. Was marked in same type coloring of buckskin/white markings. White streak head marking in center of head. Had white socking's on all feet and white tip on tail

There is no Klaus' (Herandez') Zeke in the Hank Dog's breeding. There is though, one common ancestor through a female dog named Womack's Mert. Could be some more but do not think so. All these dogs Zeke/Bolio/Mert/; had same Sire, Fitzwater's Goldie.

The connection in the Hank dog is the Lightning I and II/ Hemphill/ Jim Williams dogs. Through the way Mr. Mayfield bred up that Hank dog. IMHO, I believe the better dogs that Mayfield had was his Lightning Dogs crossed with the Black Widow and Widow' siblings. Carver was able to corner the market on the Dibo/ Widow and her sibling dogs. etc.

I reckon this dead horse can now be put out to pasture for good. I graciously thank EWO for helping me too maybe, bring all this to a conclusion. Which ever version one wishes to roll with, roll on. One version may be good as the other.

Just remember if you go back far enough on any of these pedigrees. Without access to the ADBA/ UKC pedigrees. One will run into no info on a Sire or Dam dog. Have access to the UKC pedigree. Go back far enough there. Will run into same similar problem.

This day and time. Look at the dog in front of you. Do like Earl Tudor, check the dog to your satisfaction, that is another science unto it's self. You like the dog, then look at or look up the papers to help guide you in any future breeding's etc.

After four or eight generations we are all on shaky ground. LOL Cheers

[EWO]

Thank you. I like the 'Red Boy dog off a Krebb's' dog' version myself. Who knows, maybe in a few years more information will turn up and we feel somewhat different.

Agreed with grading the dog in front of you. Re-creating something five generations deep is just wishful thinking. My buddy sent me a picture the other day of a 16X16 pit. The caption said "This is the real lie detector test" , or something to that effect.

Thanks again for the input.

Hopefully after the weekend I will go back to a more normal work schedule. Splitting shifts leaves me where I am not sure if I am coming or going. Just got off a 12 hours shift and no idea what I am working til I wake up this afternoon.

EWO