Quote Originally Posted by TFX
Swamp Dweller, there is no need to get your feelings hurt over a differing opinion, especially when that opinion is based on first hand experience with a veritable multitude of animals, with absolutely no expense spared to acquire them.

I have seen dozens upon dozens of the Boyles dogs from just about every notable kennel who bred them in the 1990's, including many from the man himself. The bottom line is they are not in general a line of high percentage game dogs. I remember well a SDJ in the late 80's in the "Rappin With The White Castle Kid" section where he was talking about the various popular lines of the day. About the Boyles dogs he said " Rough cur dogs that are mean as snakes". It would take a few more years until I would see a bunch of them myself, but I never forgot that. It proved to be a deadly accurate assesment from my own experience.

Now, with that said, I realize there are some game pockets of the Boyles dogs, and some game individuals. For example, we showed a Handicapp son (T-Boy stuff) who lost brutally honest in 1:47. He was the pure truth. We had a little Tobacco Road daughter who was real good. Above all, the two sisters by Red Johnny x Rick's Missy were phenomenal animals one of which; Roto, became our premier brood matron. However, I believe Roto and Precious were rock solid in spite of their topside, not because of it. You see, they come from a string of winning and game females themselves in Hollingsworth's Ruby (2X), Garner's Cal Cat (1X), and Rick's Missy. Of those two Missy daughters, only Roto was proven in the brood pen, and she produced game dogs in very high percentages. Likewise, I have seen a number of the Garner dogs direct from Tom. I don't like them much better than the Boyles dogs, they are rough, low percentage dogs. The best of them in y opinion have the ultra-game Hollingsworth blood like Missy, CH Rebel Yell, GR CH Spikey etc. did. The fact that I had a breeding program based around a Garner female and a Boyles sire only serves to show that I am not biased against either line. I recognize the value and contribution that both breeders made to the breed. It was Tom himself who said "I am Wal-Mart". In general, I don't shop for my clothes at Wal-Mart, but they do carry a few quality brands like Dickies. So it is with the "Wal-Mart" dog breeders, it isn't all bad! On the other hand, it damn sure isn't all good either. If a fancier gets something of high quality from a high percentage game pocket out of that type of breeding program, they would do well to stop and begin to breed upon it. Buying dogs out of a low percentage program is a good way to go broke unless you have very deep pockets like my friend who fooled with the blood. Before he got out of dogs in 1998, he ended up getting some traditional old Patrick (Bolio-Clouse-Tombstone) dogs and even some from the Carolina Kitten which were much more satsifactory overall in the gameness department.
TFX, it takes a lot more than a difference of opinion to get me in my feelings big guy. We're just having a gentlmen's discussion; that's it. Your opinion differs from mine, but I can't argue with what you saw or experienced; no more than you can agrue about my opinion. These dogs are what they are! Most are rough, with above average mouth, although, they are also a good percentage of the ones I have, and others I've seen that are just as game as any; put in the right shape, of course. I'm not saying all of them are, but I doubt if anyone can claim that all of the dogs they bred & raised are "as dead-game as a live one can be". With the mouth that these dogs have, coupled with the drive to finish, most won't ever get their "oil" checked to see. And that suits me just fine, cause honestly, when I was active (years ago) I wasn't trying to be in there all night anyway. However, I did get pushed to the limit with a few; one being my BULL dog, who went to a 2:02 game lose against Nail'Em Down's MAGIC 2xw; but we were awarded GIS honors after completing a courtesy that would make the hair on the back of your neck stand up! BULL was a son of the BAM BAM dog that Sand Pitt had years ago, bred to the old RAFFLE bitch that Maywalt had, who was bred down from a Lonzo Pratt/Howard Heinzl bloodline. Then there was our HAMMER dog, that won in 2:31 against The Deacon & Rodgers' charge; also winning GIS honors that night. HAMMER was a son of WILD BILL CODY, bred to a bitch Grave Yard Boyz got from STP. These are dogs I owned & campaigned myself (years ago). There are others that I can list that were "pushed to the limit", and still showed "true to the game". Dogs like, CH. SEEKA, CH. INDIO, CH. PUP PUP (as you mentioned Jack), GR.CH. SPARKY, CH. KING JOKER, etc., etc. And I can go on and on, but there is also a list just as long of those that quit. I have had success with them, and I wouldn't trade them for any other. These dogs will always be the foundation of my yard, however, I have, and will continue to cross into other lines that I think will add to their ability in some way. So TFX & Jack, I do respect both of you, as well as your opinions, but I still beg to differ. I like the ones that win; and if they can go in there and do it, where their gameness is never tested, than thats cool by me! Just as long as they win against first-class competition.....

Swamp