How or where do dogs get their style ? Opinions please.

[Officially Retired]

Ditto Jack and EWO. Back when my dog partner V.J. was doing so well. In schooling dogs with me or someone else. V.J. had one that showed desire,but was getting the bad end of the deal in it's first schooling. When V.J. brought this same dog out for a second schooling time later on.

If I or the someone else went to get and try another dog. V.J. would say no, go get that same dog that was used the last time. Usually the reply to V.J. was made, but that dog had the upper hand the whole time. Sure you do not want to try another dog.

His reply was no, less do the same schooling dog from the first get go. See what my dog has learned, will it show some counter move smarts or even kick your dog's arse. LOL. If not, no need to proceed farther. Just check it's oil on that dog. He felt a good dog that had potential would learn the proper counter moves before trying another style dog on it. If dog had improved, then later to another style dog. But not to the point of schooling, one more time, then just one more time, and time and time again. Before one had the confidence to use their dog in a weight pull event.

Dogs that show some dog contact desire at around say 18 months old can get some short 5 minute schooling lessons. If dog shows potential, best to wait till 24 to 28 months old before a serious weight pull event is to take place.

A good dog will learn from each schooling bout, still the over all style it will predominately desire to do is in the genes. Jack's dogs are noted head dogs with smarts to go to the body when their opponent is weak. Bolio's Sire and Bolio were known for being the same bad head dog types. Eli bred dogs usually stay in the front end till they can go to the back end. JMHO, Cheers

This is a great post, thank you.

Very interesting that VJ would re-roll the prospect with the same dog to see if there was improvement. Never thought about that, so you learn something new every day

I saw this once with my U-Nhan-Rha dog with Icon. The first time I rolled them, Icon completely dominated U-Nhan-Rha, but Uey was always in it, just a step behind. The second time I put them together, it was much more even, with Icon getting weaker in the end (which he didn't the first time, even though he was slightly the smaller dog).

No dog ever put Uey behind, except Icon, and no dog ever put Icon behind, ever, except for brief stints of Uey's second roll with him.

At the end of the second, I could see Uey was the stronger dog ... but it was already 1:20 into it, OTC, as both had great air, and I saw all I needed to see to be able to rate them both as First Class dogs, with Uey showing vast improvement the second time around. Uey was a face dog that was used to decimating "driving dogs" by destroying their faces ... and didn't know how to handle a Pure Ear Dog the first time he faced Icon ... but he learned how to deal with it, the second time around, and actually rode and frustrated Icon at several points.

Very interesting to learn of VJ's methods

Jack

[No Quarter Kennel]

I think they all come into it with their own DNA tendencies.
I think they call CAN learn, but not all do.
Seen dogs change styles b/c of injury and losing situations.
Seen a lot of dogs that have NEVER gone to the head, take the head and this kind of dog taking to the head has typically found out he's just run into a mouth or a strength he's never faced before.

[EWO]

The dogs that change tendencies or styles in defense of what another is doing is usually a smart dog. The best of those smart dogs either make offensive damage out of a defensive position, or can switch from one to the other in a seamless fashion.

There is a ton of difference between the dog that is on the head to keep something off of him and a the dog that is on the head to control, punish and break one down to a finishing spot.

And then there are complete surprises. http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum...p?dog_id=41359
If a dog were graded on everything from life on the chain, to work ethic, to being game, with ability, to finish, everything from 8 weeks old until the end of his performance career, this is the best male I have ever seen. He was a brutal head dog, a dog that killed from the side of the head. Hangers on the top of the ear and the bottom of the jaw and just pulled it all together to the jaw was useless. Before the thought of "I'm outta here" completely crossed the mind of his opponent he dropped to the throat and it was over. In his second he was going into a bad ass Tant/Burns RBJ dog who was freak dog in the ass end. I never saw Charlie hit one in the ass at all til that dog tried it. It was like, "that's the way you wanna play" and out of nowhere dropped down and pulled his wee-wee and cod sack out by the roots and from there back to the head and then to the throat. Either that dog had a propensity Charlie recognized or he heard us talking on the drive down, not really sure. LOL. Real smart. EWO

[Officially Retired]

Would have liked to have seen that dog in action

[EWO]

He was a pleasure to see. He was campaigned by DTA kennels and I was lucky enough to be a part of the keeps and learning from him. The only drawback being he would spoil the best of them because he really had no faults that had to be worked thru. He accepted his role in life as a methodically driven serial killer. His only fault was maybe he was within a skipped feeding of peak condition at all times. He turned his 12 foot chain (3/8" log chain) into a jenny/catmill for hours everyday. Rake another dog, touch another dog, feed another dog and he was off to the races.

Posted this in another thread as well. Maybe it was one where Kitana bit you I think. We had just worked and fed Charlie and was about to put him up. We were in the building and the box was up. I dropped a box of screws and not thinking, got down on all fours to pick them up and looked up and he looked over. He had that slight raise in his body and was about to scratch. I can only imagine what would have happened if he was not on lead. I would like to think I would have held my own and been picked up game but who knows. More than likely screamed like a little girl. EWO

[bamaman]

I think Silver was a defensive head dog with no finish.ill use him as a example for legal purposes.Pera did add the Spike blood through Hammonds to add finish .Gr Ch kid is a example of what it looks like.Both styles can get you the W though.I have saw some head dogs that will finish in the head your offensive ones.And some move on to the rear.There was a time around here were you could get ear dogs for a little or no money and it was a ear dog with no finish.You might get a ear dog with finish at times but not likely, it depended on what the breeder liked.I got most of mine from a guy who liked leg breakers.

[SHOWBOX]

"Gr.Ch Titere is by far one of the smartest most complete dog there is, as has been stated it may not look impressive but it gets the job done".

I'll have to disagree with you on this one. I think he looks very impressive. I remember seeing his rolls and watching the difference in his first show. He was barn storming in his rolls, offensive and though a show quality hound not the BULLDOG he is today. On show day, GATORBOYZ brought an intelligent head dog that kept Titere from touching him and at bay for about 15 minutes and then I could see the wheels start turning, Titere was THINKING.

That's when I KNEW he was something special. Once the wheels started turning it was over. He adapted his style to his opponent and the hound jumped the box in :34. He got better in every show after and is obviously one of the greatest of all time.

SHOWBOX

[ragedog10]

Agreed I should of went into more detail about what I meant, what I meant was to most it appears he is doing very little when in fact he is taking one apart piece by piece. # 1 is still running up highway lol

[S_B]

CH Charlie sounds like an ACE!

[Nitaino]

Well going to throw my two cents in the mix. I raised and schooled Gr Ch Titere. He was the only one out of the litter that wasn't single minded. He would use your style against you till he got his way and then it was just a matter of time. Remember you aren't out to impress but to get that win. And the stiffer the competition the harder it is to get your way. I do believe you can breed your animals to have a specific style. I have three generations of dogs on the ground off Panthro Jr. who was the best producer of that litter and all have smarts but are back end monsters. To really key on that specific trait you must have animals that pass the trait along on constantly and be fairly tightly bred.