Honestly, IMO, they're still boys at 22-24 months (comparable to 15-19 year old humans).
I don't consider a dog to be a "man" until after 3 years of age ...
Jack
Honestly, IMO, they're still boys at 22-24 months (comparable to 15-19 year old humans).
I don't consider a dog to be a "man" until after 3 years of age ...
Jack
Jack,
I have heard a few old timers say the same thing and some even said if they were good at 3yrs old, they would be even better at 4. Has it been more common place over the last few decades for people to show and roll dogs around 2yrs old? I am assuming this happens mostly due to just a lack of patience. Also from your experience Jack, do you believe most or all lines are better at 3 or so years old or is it dependent on the "blood". Thanks for your time. I know you are a busy dude.
Originally Posted by Milehighmisfit
Anyone with experience, and/or intelligence, will say the same thing.
Anyone who is trying to "test" dogs younger than 2.5 - 3 is a moron.
You can "start" dogs whenever they seem ready, and "bump" them in short practice runs, but you do not test dogs until they are fully-mature.
Same thing as you can lace a pair of gloves on a 12 year old kid, and let him have some short 2-3 round amateur bouts, but you are NOT going to put a 12 year old in a 15 round world title fight to the finish (even with another kid).
There is also a difference between "sexual" maturity and full-fledged social maturity.
A human kid can reproduce at 12-14 years of age, but that doesn't mean he's a MAN yet
He is not a leader, is not prepared to support himself (let alone a family), make important decisions, or command respect, anywhere.
He is still a BOY with a BOY'S MIND.
By the same token, so it is with dogs
A young male may hike his leg at 12 months, and be able to sire a litter, but that doesn't mean he's an "adult" yet either.
It is a biological fact that wolves don't reach SOCIAL maturity until 3-4 years of age. Meaning, they may be sexually-mature at 1, but they haven't become full, socially-mature males (ready to challenge the leader) until they're 3-4 years old.
Too many toothless, inbred idiot-dogmen understand nothing about dogs (or anything else for that matter), and roll/test PUPPIES ... and kill them before 1-2 years of age ... when these dogs aren't even anywhere near ready
Just because a pup fires-up at 14 months, for a min or two, doesn't mean he's ready for a full-blown game test next month.
You're just supposed to SCHOOL THEM, with a short bump every couple months, AND ALLOW THEM TO MATURE for another year or two. Same as you let a young kid develop his boxing skills, in short, amateur fights for a few years, before he is ready to turn pro.
There are basic concepts staring people in the face everywhere ... but some people are just too blind to see them.
So think "idiot" every time you hear someone talk about testing any dog that isn't at least 2.5 - 3 years old.
Some dogs, like Chinaman and Dibo, were not ready till 4 or 5 years of age.
A dog's quality is based on LEVEL OF PERFORMANCE (not "how quick they start"), and it is a fact that some of the better-performing dogs took awhile before they were fully-ready.
Jack
Anyone with experience, and/or intelligence, will say the same thing.
Anyone who is trying to "test" dogs younger than 2.5 - 3 is a moron.
You can "start" dogs whenever they seem ready, and "bump" them in short practice runs, but you do not test dogs until they are fully-mature.
Same thing as you can lace a pair of gloves on a 12 year old kid, and let him have some short 2-3 round amateur bouts, but you are NOT going to put a 12 year old in a 15 round world title fight to the finish (even with another kid).
There is also a difference between "sexual" maturity and full-fledged social maturity.
A human kid can reproduce at 12-14 years of age, but that doesn't mean he's a MAN yet
He is not a leader, is not prepared to support himself (let alone a family), make important decisions, or command respect, anywhere.
He is still a BOY with a BOY'S MIND.
By the same token, so it is with dogs
A young male may hike his leg at 12 months, and be able to sire a litter, but that doesn't mean he's an "adult" yet either.
It is a biological fact that wolves don't reach SOCIAL maturity until 3-4 years of age. Meaning, they may be sexually-mature at 1, but they haven't become full, socially-mature males (ready to challenge the leader) until they're 3-4 years old.
Too many toothless, inbred idiot-dogmen understand nothing about dogs (or anything else for that matter), and roll/test PUPPIES ... and kill them before 1-2 years of age ... when these dogs aren't even anywhere near ready
Just because a pup fires-up at 14 months, for a min or two, doesn't mean he's ready for a full-blown game test next month.
You're just supposed to SCHOOL THEM, with a short bump every couple months, AND ALLOW THEM TO MATURE for another year or two. Same as you let a young kid develop his boxing skills, in short, amateur fights for a few years, before he is ready to turn pro.
There are basic concepts staring people in the face everywhere ... but some people are just too blind to see them.
So think "idiot" every time you hear someone talk about testing any dog that isn't at least 2.5 - 3 years old.
Some dogs, like Chinaman and Dibo, were not ready till 4 or 5 years of age.
A dog's quality is based on PERFORMANCE (not "how quick they start"), and it is a fact that some of the better-performing dogs took awhile before they were fully-ready.
Jack
100% excellent post.....imagine all the potential great ones we have possibly lost due to impatience and poor judgement
It also the old bull and young bull standing on top of the hill story. The young bull says, "Hey, Pops, let's run down this hill and F*&K a couple of those heifers". The old bull replies, "Son, let's walk down there and F&^K them all".
Dogs no different, maturity is a must. EWO
All good posts.
I agree, people will "read a post" and "nod their head" ... or even write GOOD POST ... and then go right back home and violate the very principles to which they nodded their head in assent.
EWO, I say the same thing to dogmen in regards to meds: many people will "agree" that they should have Berenil, Imizol, Albon, and all kinds of other drugs onhand, in preparation for an emergency ... and yet, after "agreeing with this online," they do NOT bother to actually order these drugs, to actually BE prepared, in real life.
And so it is with allowing dogs to mature.
People will "say" you should do these things, if asked the question, and they will "agree with a post" they see online, but yet they will cull their 18 month old dog for standing the line on his first bump.
Everyone is wanting to be some big, famous dogman with every dog on their yard being an ace.
Everyone wants to be "judge and jury" of their dogs but yet they can't be bothered with being TEACHER AND DEVELOPER of their dogs, FIRST, when they're young.
Every boxing trainer, worth his salt, is also A MENTOR to their fighters as they develop
And every dogman, worth his salt, should also be A MENTOR to his dogs, communicating in other ways than verbal, by tone of voice, inflection, example, and by coming up with creative ways to encourage dogs that are a little slower to get started than others.
Unfortunately, everyone just wants to watch all their young dogs like a hawk, for the first "bad sign" they can spot, so they can off the dog ... and yet they don't realize that THEY (as owners) are exhibiting the worst signs of all: LACK OF PATIENCE AND UNDERSTANDING.
I remember when my Diamond Girl bitch stood the line, on her very first bump, on her very first scratch. We just tried to start her, you could see she wasn't really into it, and when given the chance to stop, she did.
All these "experts" told me, "I'd shoot that bitch if I were you," wanting to sound tough and like 'real dogmen,' but I have never followed the crowd and I never held too many people's opinions as worth much. I knew DG's age, I could already see she wasn't ready, and I wasn't STUPID ENOUGH to confuse "not started yet" with "cur."
It took Diamond Girl about 3 years to be fully-started, to where she had hate in her eyes, and truly wanted to go over there and OWN THAT GROUND. And boy was it worth the wait
Diamond Girl proved to be an EXCEPTIONALLY-game bitch, whelped Champions, is behind 2 Grand Champions (and 1 DOY), put Nico Jr. on the ROM list with Ch Buster, is behind all of Jaime Anderson's best dogs, and (when people look in any pedigree and see Diamond Girl's name there) it is synonymous with GAMENESS ... that would have never happened ... had I been the typical fucktard dogman and "culled her" before she ever even started ... all because of my "delicate ego" when she stood the line on her first bump.
There are so many "delicate dogmen" out there, whose egos can't take it if their young dog doesn't do well, that they kill the young dog (so "they" will look tough), when IN FACT all they're doing is proving how WEAK (not to mention clueless) they really are
I know enough about dogs to make my own GD decisions, and I am confident enough to stand by my own judgments and don't need anyone else's "approval" of my decisions.
Too many dogmen are not like that. They understand nothing, and they make decisions to kill dogs way before they ever gave the thing a fair chance, all so that "their peers" will approve.
If more people bothered to actually understand the biological realities of dogs, how they think, when they mature, and really did pay attention to "THE SIGNS" (not just bad moves, but whether the dog is even MATURE yet or not), they would go a lot further in the game, and their percentages would improve.
My bitch Amazon is 3.5 right now, and is only now becoming "an adult."
She has had the body of an adult for awhile now.
I am sure I could have "started her" at about a year to a year an a half.
However, only recently is she walking and conducting herself like an "alpha female."
I can see the change in her. I can sense the difference.
It is hard to explain to the blind, things that they do not have the perception (or experience) to see.
But that ability to see and sense the difference is the difference between a dog man and a dog owner.
Jack
That is hilarious, well put. I have a good amount of experience with human combatants but no so much with the dogs but the similarities are striking in regards to letting one mature to their full potential. I once trained at a gym that had a similar approach to Pinky and the Brain. They pissed off so much talent and ruined potential fighters, mentally. The fact is when you have a bunch of 18yr old kids scrapping with each other often times the bully type will win or the one who is overly confident. I have 18yr old students that are physical specimens but will break under pressure. They act like world beaters when they are dishing it out but will give up when the going gets tough. These kids need to know that someone believes in them and that there coach is there to take care of them and is trying to put more into them, and not always test them through hard sparring day in and day out. If I see one of my young charges getting beat up a little in a sparring session getting frustrated and beat more than I think they are ready for, I stop it. I'll sit the kid and talk about how we can improve their skill set and build a better game plan. That student will not get challenged like that again until they have mentally healed. With humans gameness often grows with age, and the ones that are "hot" at an earlier age, rarely turn out
to be the best fighters. Just like Jack said, intelligence is a huge factor with any successful fighter. Intelligent fighters analyze things and don't just automatically believe they are the baddest things around. They need to believe in their skill set, know they have the right conditioning, and know they have the tools to get the job done. Just like the dogs, there "schooling" needs to be fun and they will get tested harder and harder as they mature. When I work with my young fighters, I can sense when they "crack". Often times they have already given up before a sparring session begins, especially if their sparring partner has beaten them before . You can see it their facial expression, you can tell by how they are breathing, see it in their eyes etc etc.
Also, often times the guys that come out sparring super aggressive, it is out of fear. They are just trying to end things quickly to avoid getting hit and being taken into deep water. This style uses excess energy especially when the fight or flight kicks in and adrenaline dump happens. These type of guys start blowing out after 1 or 2 minutes. Go watch any amateur boxing or kickboxing event. The pace is a furry for about 30 seconds and then.......they can't even keep their hands up they are so tired.
The gyms that have the mentality I described above basically use the crap shoot method. They have enough prospects coming through the door that they can run through them and still have a couple outstanding prospects that will rise to the top regardless of how bad their schooling was. These types of places are not building talent, just ruining students.
Anyone with experience, and/or intelligence, will say the same thing.
Anyone who is trying to "test" dogs younger than 2.5 - 3 is a moron.
You can "start" dogs whenever they seem ready, and "bump" them in short practice runs, but you do not test dogs until they are fully-mature.
Same thing as you can lace a pair of gloves on a 12 year old kid, and let him have some short 2-3 round amateur bouts, but you are NOT going to put a 12 year old in a 15 round world title fight to the finish (even with another kid).
There is also a difference between "sexual" maturity and full-fledged social maturity.
A human kid can reproduce at 12-14 years of age, but that doesn't mean he's a MAN yet
He is not a leader, is not prepared to support himself (let alone a family), make important decisions, or command respect, anywhere.
He is still a BOY with a BOY'S MIND.
By the same token, so it is with dogs
A young male may hike his leg at 12 months, and be able to sire a litter, but that doesn't mean he's an "adult" yet either.
It is a biological fact that wolves don't reach SOCIAL maturity until 3-4 years of age. Meaning, they may be sexually-mature at 1, but they haven't become full, socially-mature males (ready to challenge the leader) until they're 3-4 years old.
Too many toothless, inbred idiot-dogmen understand nothing about dogs (or anything else for that matter), and roll/test PUPPIES ... and kill them before 1-2 years of age ... when these dogs aren't even anywhere near ready
Just because a pup fires-up at 14 months, for a min or two, doesn't mean he's ready for a full-blown game test next month.
You're just supposed to SCHOOL THEM, with a short bump every couple months, AND ALLOW THEM TO MATURE for another year or two. Same as you let a young kid develop his boxing skills, in short, amateur fights for a few years, before he is ready to turn pro.
There are basic concepts staring people in the face everywhere ... but some people are just too blind to see them.
So think "idiot" every time you hear someone talk about testing any dog that isn't at least 2.5 - 3 years old.
Some dogs, like Chinaman and Dibo, were not ready till 4 or 5 years of age.
A dog's quality is based on LEVEL OF PERFORMANCE (not "how quick they start"), and it is a fact that some of the better-performing dogs took awhile before they were fully-ready.
Jack
need ta put that shit on facebook. maybe then people will start payin attention
I'd not want to post anything on Facebook. Certainly nothing about gamedogs. Facebook is not a safe site, and you cannot "delete" anything, it is stored forever. They are just out to take as much info as they can for their own gain. Take a look at this article --
http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2018/...servation.html
Common sense isn't so common these days.
SO TRUE, I'M NOT EVEN ON FACEBOOK, AND IF I WAS, I DAMN SURE WOULDN'T BE TALKIN ABOUT DOGS. I GOT A HOMIE (LEARNING ABOUT THE DOGS) WHO'S ON IT AND HE READS A LOT A SOAP OPERA SHIT ON THERE.
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