Quote Originally Posted by luvmybulldogs
I understand the difference between schooling and checking. The weight she is we dont have many the same size, and if you ask other folks to play they going to bring a good one trying to prove a point or something so we use or own with our own. That being said.... I can admit i may have rushed to judge especially considering the dogs dont even know what to do yet.... That was a valid point. But sometimes when ya got two people involved instead of trying to make the other one see your point or vice versa, ya gotta find a common ground.... I got it... Talked to my friend earlier and both will get another look. NOW THAT BRINGS ME TO THIS..... When u say they dont know what to do..... are you saying one can be taught to go????
Well, the trouble with blanket statements is they never apply to all dogs, and by that I mean the truth of how "one" dog matures isn't necessarily the truth for how "another" dog matures.

Your two dogs may both be rank curs, one may be rank and the other one is just not yet with the program, or both dogs may still have potential that just hasn't been allowed to bloom yet.

To show what I mean, my Pretty Boy dog was fully-started by 6 weeks old. He had to be separated from his litter by 6 weeks of age. He was sold to a greenhorn who let him get to 16 months of age, and instead of rolling Pretty Boy and schooling him, this guy matched Pretty Boy whose first time down in a box EVER was a contracted match ... that went 2:42 ... and Pretty Boy won (in the only way that his no-talent ass could win) on gameness. Very few dogs could have done, at 16 months of age, on their first time down, what Pretty Boy did! Pretty Boy was essentially "fool-proof," in that even an incredible fool like his owner couldn't mess him up because Pretty Boy just loved to do his thing since Day 1.

All right, well, Silverback was nothing like Pretty Boy. He was a happy pup and grew up around other dogs, never once showing any aggression at all. When he was young, one of my bitches grabbed him, and Silverback DOA'd her within 5-6 min. I was literally gone for no more than 10 min and came back to a stone-dead bitch. Choked TF out. Yet Silverback wasn't really "on," he just wouldn't take shit and (little did I know at the time) was a rare natural-born finisher. When I came back, he was standing over the dead bitch wagging his tail like a puppy. IMO, he did what he did in self-defense, and did not start it.

Yet still, on his first "look" at 16 mos, Silverback actually ran passed the other dog and jumped up on the other handler wanting to "play" After the other dog grabbed him, Silverback sat there for a moment, like his feelings were hurt ... like he thought everybody was his friend and couldn't believe anyone would want to hurt him

Within a few seconds of being attacked, however, Silverback threw down the gauntlet, and very shortly the other dog needed to be picked up to be saved. That "other dog" was Pretty Boy, the game dog that went 2:42. Well, he would have been DOA in under :10 with the 2-lb bigger Silverback 8-)

Yet, when separated, Silverback wasn't quite sure what he was supposed to do --- he had been raised as a pet and thought he was a "bad boy" for doing stuff like that --- but he did go over there, a bit tentatively, and completed his scratch. He did the same thing on his next time down ... ran passed the other dog, then got pissed when he was grabbed, then handled his business ... because he spent another couple of months being a house dog. Yet, by his 3rd time down Silverback "got it" and realized when he saw another adult male in a [] ... that it was time to rock-and-roll ... and boy could he rock-and-roll, just totally dominating whatever he was with, and in a hurry. He no longer scratched tentatively, but hard and with brutal intent. Yet, at home, he still realizes he is a "bad boy" to show aggression ... smart dogs are like that

The moral of the story is I did not try to "judge" the dog on his first try. His talent was naturally awesome, but in his head he was still a happy puppy, and he was never really all that aggressive (at least not until he gets hurt). I honestly think that if I had put Silverback on an un-started piece of shit, that cur-snapped and then stood there, hell Silverback might not have started. And he might not have gone over there either on his first time. Totally different scene. However, because Pretty Boy really laid it into his ass, and then was being held over there in the corner going apeshit for the separation, that kept the young Silverback geeked-up too, which was part of his motivation for going back over there: enthusiasm.

So, again, if I were you I wouldn't rush to any decisions over ANYTHING after a first look against another green opponent. To me, it has nothing to do with "not being hurt," it has more to do with the level of intensity. Two green dogs squawking at each other, and then letting go and standing there, sounds more like totally-inexperienced first-time bullshit than anything I personally would make a decision over. Myself, I would instead put something on each one that is fully-schooled, fully-started, and for real intense, and see how your dogs each handles a bulldog, not a fellow funny-acting beginner.

Sure, a dog like Pretty Boy is easier to make judgment calls on, and doesn't require as much work to get pointed in the right direction ... however, as fully-schooled, fully-mature animals Silverback could go through 3 of Pretty Boy without getting too hot, so it was worth the extra effort ... and neither Pretty Boy's 'ease of starting,' nor his early deep gameness, could give him a snowball's chance in hell of whipping The Gorilla 8-)

Jack