I have used it with fair out comes half a cc 3x a day with work after third dose! Hounds would have thick slime all over the place! I think the trick is to up the heart rate and get the lungs to working at its max! B.u.t I will only use it on hounds with a bad air intake ones that snort when gasping for air with in a few weeks that flim is all up and they are able to complete a work load with out a break in stride!