Male = 15 wins
Female = 10 wins

They're both stupid systems, really, because they don't take into account # of breedings, etc.

A dog that was bred 85x and produced 2 Grand Champions and 10 Champions is flyshit compared to a dog that was bred 6x and produced 2 Grand Champions and 4 Champions.

All systems are flawed, ultimately, and no system can replace your own genuine knowledge (or lack) and a deep understanding of that you're working with.

However, a good system of percentages and statistics (while it may not be perfect and does not tell the whole story) can give you relevant trends, percentages, and likelihoods ... but absolutely nothing will replace firsthand, hand-on experience.

For example, I remember when Ed Faron first started using the CompUPed system and charging people for "breeding data" that his pedigree program would generate. He told me that (in a 10-generation search) more Champions etc. traced back to Eli than any other dog, and that Bolio was second. I remember telling this to Pat Patrick, who said, "I don't need some pedigree program to tell me that Bolio could produce ... all I had to do was roll his pups out to see that."

And there is a lot of truth to this. I feel the same way with Poncho. I don't "need" this database to tell me that Poncho was the best damned dog and producer I knew of around me ... all I had to do was stomp dog-after-dog-after dog in rolls with his pups ... and add the win-after-win-after-win (and 100% DG losses) that his pups immediately started racking up ... to know that his pups were reliably and consistently kicking ass ... and that I had one helluva stud dog on my hands.

My ability to "see this" finally in my Production Statistics Page ... as a sire and grandsire ... to actually see Poncho compare favorably to the greatest producers that have ever lived ... beating most ... and comparing favorably any way you want to slice it ... is "satisfying to see" ... but I damned sure didn't need this program to tell me that Poncho could produce his ass off.

I could see that in how badly his pups dominated "other lines," far more often than not, before I ever owned a computer

Jack