Hi ragedog , well if earl did yell at blind billys scratch , does that mean blind billy must be out of dibo? is that more evidence that actual facts we do have.Now ragedog for you say to me WELL WOULDNT EARL HAVE SAID SOMETHING , well first off if every breeder of every dog whos pedigree is disputed told everything we wouldnt be taking about it today would we, and also most folks just kept quiet and didnt say much , it was a few rumours and whispers back then more so than today , so lets say if i read you right your saying if earl knew blind billy wasnt out of dibo why didnt he sayOriginally Posted by ragedog10
so ? Well how many stories today you hear from 50 /40 /30 years ago from dogmen who knew but kept quiet ?PLenty and if earl even knew about it he probalby didnt care about it ,he certainly wasnt going to bother himself with that, he probably didnt care less about it, im sure he wouldnt have said a thing and many others woudlnt have either as infact histroy shows. Today rememeber we have everything coming out withtin days or weeks and instant global information, back then things were more word of mouth and stayed more local so what went down in texas or oaklahoma didnt become common knowledge all over america and the world like it would today with the internet .
I do agree that it doesnt affect the dogs we have today, but all of these dogs and many others that have become famous
and their owners along with them make for interesting debate, but blind billy along with the eli back story has some of the most compelling eividence we have on any dogs true heritage (other than one mans word against another which is what we have in most other cases ), in billys case we have the dibos dob + story which gives us a good indication as to when tudor got him , and from that we can take the dob on billy and floyds own words as to when he was born and start putting the pieces toggether and see if they add up , and thats without adding in any hearsay or circumstantial evidence to it.
I have put them on here a few times and so far everyone has decided to ignore them or make up other what if and maybe scenarios, which of course like anythng in life we can always find a scenario that however improbable
it may seem could be true , but in most cases the probable always makes more sense than the improbable and fits much more neatly also.
I hope ragedog that by looking into it a little more you will find that there are some things that dont make sense
and certainly cant be explained away by earl hollering at a scratch billy made , he may also have had money on billy or like many dogmen just love to see a deep game dog scratch and he may also have been a little merry from booze as aluded to by others ,so to overlook the factual for the many and varied reasons why a man might do something is invariably not the actual reason we might think he did infact do it for .
Ok one last go dibo dob 21 march 1951 billy dob 1952 even if billys dob was dec 31 1952 it still doesnt make sense although
possible if we didnt have a timeline for dibos life, and as far as we know and there is no evidence to suggest dibo
was bred untill earl tudor got him in his yard in late 1953 or 1954 which means that somethng cant be right.
Yes of course we could say WHAT IF HEINZL BRED HIM and never told earl which could be possible, but not very probable
because we now a lot about both dibo and heinzl.Firstly had heinzl bred dibo then how did blind billy end up on earls yard
for floyd to buy him ? there is no evidence that heinzl told earl he had bred dibo before and then decided to send him billy,
and if he had bred him secretly wouldnt he then have kept the dog as it would seem pointless to have bred dibo secretly to
then give away the dog later , which is why this possibile scenario like most others is one of those improbable ones
which always have to many loose ends and it doesnt make sense.
The fact is we have no evidence to prove heinzl bred dibo while on his yard ,and the earliest date we have for dibo getting to earls is at the earliest in late 1953 or sometime later in 1954, but even allowing for the earlier date and based on the actual facts we have about both dibo and billys timeline it would make it an improbable possibilty .
Now i will add this known fact which is before ELI came along floyd never had any black dogs but crybaby was one of the them ,and the claim is that crybaby and little cotton are infact eli's true sire and dam, as mayfield had put her on floyds yard to let her whelp as he was having some personal problems at home ,and asked floyd to look after her until, she whelped and then he would come and pick up crybaby and the pups ,and he hoped it would all be ok by then.
When mayfield called floyd to see if she had whelped , floyd told him all the pups were born dead , but when mayfield
went to pick her up some weeks later crybaby looked like she had been nursing but just left it at that but he knew
something wasnt right.
This was in 1965 and now comes the hearsay and circumstantial evidence to add to all the other known facts we have
like dobs timelines dibos known histroy and the crybaby story.
Well after eli comes along floyds yard becomes the yard of black dogs and two years later floyd show up with ELI at pitside and mayfield and others like leo kinard and curly hayes all asked mayfield are those the pups from crybaby, and where did floyd get the black dog from , and of course mayfield knew what had gone down at that point.
Floyd had also supposedly told leo kinard and junior bush sometime later that ELI was out of crybaby , and sonny sykes was also at floyds yard and seen crybaby nursing the pups and floyd had offered him a pup from the litter at that time.
Now if we all just look at the circumstantial evidence and hearsay evidence alone wihtout any dobs timelines etc and we
know for a fact that crybaby was on floyds yard full of pups ,then if we assume the pups didnt die then that alone would
in all probabilty point to ELI being out of crybaby x cotton and not blind billy ,which would then certianly put doubt on blind billys pedigree alone without any of the dob or timelne evidence etc.
Of course it might be also possible that the pups did infact die and floyd never told leo kinard or junior bush some time later that ELI was out of crybaby x cotton or that sonny sykes ever saw crybaby nursing pups ,eventhough considering
the aftermath that ELI created and how floyds yard which upto that time had never had black dogs and he had billy since the 50s but in reality it was only after ELIS arrival that floyds yard became black even if the peds on lots of other supposed blind billy offspring show otherwsie the game knew of floyds yard and it wasnt the yard of black dogs before ELi came along.
So just the hearsay and circumstantial evidence alone points more towards crybaby x cotton, but i also agree there is also the chance it isn't.
But now if you take the full facts as we know them to be true includng dobs for dibo and blind billy plus dibos known story
and timeline and known breding history plus crybaby full of pups, then add in if you actually need to the hearsay and circumstantial evidence and i think its the most obvious and overwhelming evidence on any dog with a dsiputed pedigree
we have yet to see , and i dont expect any of you to agree with me because i say its so, but because the evidence both
factual and circumstantial points to it .
I would hope that the least any of you would do is to weigh up the possibilty that indeed blind billy has some doubts as does ELI's and i hope that looking at all the evidence both the probable and improbable circumstantial and hearsay along with
the actual known facts we do have ,that you will give it and me a fair and honest hearing without prejudice.
Happy new year and may it be a good one for all of you .
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