DISPUTED OR FAKE PEDS FROM THE PAST AND PRESENT .

[projectx]

I apologize that you have tapes with someone (unconfirmed) saying shit you believe in. I'm sorry you canNOT prove the voices on the tape are anyone you say they are.
I am sorry you are obsessed with proving people who have honest reputations are dishonest and your source of validation is that of people who lived dishonest lives.

There - you win - I apologized.

Happy New Year!

WOw you are one piece of work NQK your come on hear and call me a lair, i go out of my way to contact a member CYJ
who i didnt know at all ,but who seemed to be a knowledgeable and reasonable man by his posts , and who had made comments that he knew mayfeild and jackson , so thought if he heard the tapes he could confirm it as he did , and infact the first thing cyj said to me was (thats mayfields voice alright) and infact i am going to play him the audio
of maloney and others , and i would even call you to play it over the phone, but as you wouldnt belive it anyway as your
shitty appolgy showed, you can take it and stick where the sun dont shine .
AS for me wanting to prove people as dishonest, well to answer your question, NQK
this thread is about disputed peidgreews, i wonder if you even bothered to look at the psots which do have some good points , form various people ,and maybe its just me, but i wonder if you would be saying that if you had an interest in a line or the breed as you should being you call yourself a breeder , wouldnt you like to know how arguably the seocnd most important line of modern times was really bred ? or only if it meant being able to disagree with me i wonder.

Nqk i have no doubt seeing how you with no reason and certainly no evidence called me a lair and said i didnt have the tapes, and your caling me obbsesed by wanting to asking questions about how some famous dogs might or might not have been bred ? you are a piece of work and i would gladly call you and play you some audio and then tell you to take a hike .

By the way i agree with you that many of the men we talk about have not lead the msot saintly of lives ,and as such just
blindly taking anyones word is stupid, but you see the audios which don recodred are his conversations with other men talking also so we have the words of more than one man , so that always helps when weighing up any theorys any of us may have , but there are some people who are dishonest in one way but wouldnt be dishonest about something else, and theirs many examples of that, im sure we all know or have a friend who might in one way have negative points but we like
them , but as we know them we can make exceptions for that side of them, and the same goes im sure for every damn one of us.

Now NQK you can choose to be the lesser man and to make me such an appology shows what a little man you really are , but if thats the level of man you are then you are no sportsman , even two fighters shake hands win or lose, and to be honest i dont dislike you i never have , its you who decided you disliked me since i told you something you didnt like hearing about, and i was actually trying to help you , but thats your loss not mine, and ever since all you do is try to put me down and even accused me of lying with no good reason , so before you go calling anyone a lair or obbssed take a good look at yourself NQK and if you have any decency you will give me an honest appology not that shamefull sarcastic one you posted , that was a disgracefull thing to do but as i am a bigger man than you merry chrsitmas all the same .

[No Quarter Kennel]

WOw you are one piece of work NQK your come on hear and call me a lair, i go out of my way to contact a member CYJ
who i didnt know at all ,but who seemed to be a knowledgeable and reasonable man by his posts , and who had made comments that he knew mayfeild and jackson , so thought if he heard the tapes he could confirm it as he did , and infact the first thing cyj said to me was (thats mayfields voice alright) and infact i am going to play him the audio
of maloney and others , and i would even call you to play it over the phone, but as you wouldnt belive it anyway as your
shitty appolgy showed, you can take it and stick where the sun dont shine .
AS for me wanting to prove people as dishonest, well to answer your question, NQK
this thread is about disputed peidgreews, i wonder if you even bothered to look at the psots which do have some good points , form various people ,and maybe its just me, but i wonder if you would be saying that if you had an interest in a line or the breed as you should being you call yourself a breeder , wouldnt you like to know how arguably the seocnd most important line of modern times was really bred ? or only if it meant being able to disagree with me i wonder.

Nqk i have no doubt seeing how you with no reason and certainly no evidence called me a lair and said i didnt have the tapes, and your caling me obbsesed by wanting to asking questions about how some famous dogs might or might not have been bred ? you are a piece of work and i would gladly call you and play you some audio and then tell you to take a hike .

By the way i agree with you that many of the men we talk about have not lead the msot saintly of lives ,and as such just
blindly taking anyones word is stupid, but you see the audios which don recodred are his conversations with other men talking also so we have the words of more than one man , so that always helps when weighing up any theorys any of us may have , but there are some people who are dishonest in one way but wouldnt be dishonest about something else, and theirs many examples of that, im sure we all know or have a friend who might in one way have negative points but we like
them , but as we know them we can make exceptions for that side of them, and the same goes im sure for every damn one of us.

Now NQK you can choose to be the lesser man and to make me such an appology shows what a little man you really are , but if thats the level of man you are then you are no sportsman , even two fighters shake hands win or lose, and to be honest i dont dislike you i never have , its you who decided you disliked me since i told you something you didnt like hearing about, and i was actually trying to help you , but thats your loss not mine, and ever since all you do is try to put me down and even accused me of lying with no good reason , so before you go calling anyone a lair or obbssed take a good look at yourself NQK and if you have any decency you will give me an honest appology not that shamefull sarcastic one you posted , that was a disgracefull thing to do but as i am a bigger man than you merry chrsitmas all the same .

You are insane dude.
Worry about things you can control and forget everything else.
I dislike you based on the bullshit you spew on here constantly. You are that guy, no matter what is presented or brought to you, you will NEVER change. You are a stagnant pool of water that ultimately becomes so toxic it's poison.
As for honest people in some areas and not others - BULLSHIT! A guy is either honest or he's not.

I don't know if you are liar or not, but your tapes prove absolutely NOTHING! NO ONE on this planet can confirm those tapes are the men you claim them to be. No one can prove they are not. If this shit went to a court of law, your tapes WOULD NOT BE PERMITTED. YOU KNOW WHY??????? B/c no one can prove it's them. Maybe it is, maybe it's not. However, it's what you hang ALL of your "proof" on. It is not enough. I' not even saying that you are wrong - but that you CANNOT IN ANY WAY IN HELL PROVE IT - SO THEREFORE - LET IT GO.

I apologize for calling you a liar as I don't KNOW if you are lying or not.
I also apologize for your ignorance that you cannot see or understand yourself.

[No Quarter Kennel]

I think Mayfield recorded conversations with other dogmen without their consent b/c 1. He was paranoid as hell 2. He wanted to use confidential info for and against different people and 3. He was probably a fucking snitch and used these tapes against rivals.

Why in the hell else would someone tape conversations of other people

[Officially Retired]

I think Mayfield recorded conversations with other dogmen without their consent b/c 1. He was paranoid as hell 2. He wanted to use confidential info for and against different people and 3. He was probably a fucking snitch and used these tapes against rivals.
Why in the hell else would someone tape conversations of other people

I can understand why, because it sets a precedence of the person being a liar.

I taped 3 conversations of me and Pat Patrick, a long time ago when I was a beginner, when he and I were on the verge of falling out. I was a green nobody then, and he had personally told me of the "true breeding" of so many dogs, that I felt this needed to be documented. So I do "get" why Mayfield would want to preserve on tape "the true breedings" behind some famous dogs. (Same as Bobby Smith got Pat Patrick to admit Ch Blaze was really off of Reuben.) I personally never made my tapes public ... but I may too someday when I am old, angry, and bored ... same as I did when I published Smith's tape when I The Truth about Mason's Ch Hammer

This doesn't necessarily make a person a snitch; it might be the only way for the truth to get out. I could likewise publish the tapes with Patrick admitting how Buck, Cheryl Tiegs, and Ch Chewy are really bred, but since I don't run dogs down from these lines (like I do Ch Hammer), I have never bothered.

Jack

PS: Ultimately, I agree it doesn't matter anymore, but it does make for interesting historical footnotes for discussion.

[Foxman]

Jack, The problem with any dogman that lies and says it is a lie but the second story he is fixing to share with you is the correct one. I have a problem with any story he tells. The first second or third. Whether it is recorded on the phone or otherwise. All he is doing by saying he is now expressing the true breeding is confessing he is a lier. So how could a person believe anything he says. A good attorney would completely ruin a witness using that approach. It's something to talk about among friends but I am not convinced anything any of those guys say like Patrick is ever the truth. I can see a mistake like saying it was the 24th when he was born then shortly after that statement saying I was wrong it was the 28th but to tell a Whole line of dogs you lied about then say you lied and here is the new truth. I'm out on that crap. Randy Fox

[Officially Retired]

Jack, The problem with any dogman that lies and says it is a lie but the second story he is fixing to share with you is the correct one. I have a problem with any story he tells. The first second or third. Whether it is recorded on the phone or otherwise. All he is doing by saying he is now expressing the true breeding is confessing he is a lier. So how could a person believe anything he says. A good attorney would completely ruin a witness using that approach. It's something to talk about among friends but I am not convinced anything any of those guys say like Patrick is ever the truth. I can see a mistake like saying it was the 24th when he was born then shortly after that statement saying I was wrong it was the 28th but to tell a Whole line of dogs you lied about then say you lied and here is the new truth. I'm out on that crap. Randy Fox

I hear what you're saying.

As a fraud investigator for over 12 years, who then either settles claims or litigates/prosecutes them with attorneys, I am well versed in dealing with lies.

The key word is motive.

When Patrick was telling me "the inside scoop," it was as a confidant. When he was lying, it was either because someone wanted "a Maloney dog" (so he papered it that way to make $$) ... or it was because a famous stud was shooting blanks (so he used a no-name son to cover for the elder, so again he could make $$) ... or it was to take some dog that made Champion off a dead stud (and re-paper it under an active stud, so again he could promote that living stud), etc.

When I was being told "the truth" there was no financial motive ... it was just during 3-hour conversations shooting the breeze. But, I agree, once a person is a confirmed liar on paperwork ... it's hard to take their word seriously if the money is on the line.

Jack

[No Quarter Kennel]

I can understand why, because it sets a precedence of the person being a liar.

I taped 3 conversations of me and Pat Patrick, a long time ago when I was a beginner, when he and I were on the verge of falling out. I was a green nobody then, and he had personally told me of the "true breeding" of so many dogs, that I felt this needed to be documented. So I do "get" why Mayfield would want to preserve on tape "the true breedings" behind some famous dogs. (Same as Bobby Smith got Pat Patrick to admit Ch Blaze was really off of Reuben.) I personally never made my tapes public ... but I may too someday when I am old, angry, and bored ... same as I did when I published Smith's tape when I The Truth about Mason's Ch Hammer

This doesn't necessarily make a person a snitch; it might be the only way for the truth to get out. I could likewise publish the tapes with Patrick admitting how Buck, Cheryl Tiegs, and Ch Chewy are really bred, but since I don't run dogs down from these lines (like I do Ch Hammer), I have never bothered.

Jack

PS: Ultimately, I agree it doesn't matter anymore, but it does make for interesting historical footnotes for discussion.

I see all of that. Makes sense. I sincerely apologize to......well, nah, I'll just take this good perspective and admit, I can totally see this.

You guys have a great New Year

[projectx]

I think Mayfield recorded conversations with other dogmen without their consent b/c 1. He was paranoid as hell 2. He wanted to use confidential info for and against different people and 3. He was probably a fucking snitch and used these tapes against rivals.

Why in the hell else would someone tape conversations of other people

Nqk i completly agree that mayfield never had their consent, im sure they wouldnt have said the things they did had they known he was recording them , which actually makes the tapes that much more interesting and important, and he probably was paranoid , with good reason, but to call him a snitch , there you go again NQK full accusations with no proof as usuall you must like calling folks lairs but not even a theory on any of the dogs so far, just here to throw shit and hate on me and mayfield , well at least try to put up a theory if dont believe a man like i have done with floyd , at least it isnt just becasue i hate him , i dont but i dont believe him on blind billy, but at least i try to explain why ,what do you do on this thread NQK apart from insult me and look for fight that you cant win , maybe actually making a post about the dogs might be an idea to get you started with .

[No Quarter Kennel]

Nqk i completly agree that mayfield never had their consent, im sure they wouldnt have said the things they did had they known he was recording them , which actually makes the tapes that much more interesting and important, and he probably was paranoid , with good reason, but to call him a snitch , there you go again NQK full accusations with no proof as usuall you must like calling folks lairs but not even a theory on any of the dogs so far, just here to throw shit and hate on me and mayfield , well at least try to put up a theory if dont believe a man like i have done with floyd , at least it isnt just becasue i hate him , i dont but i dont believe him on blind billy, but at least i try to explain why ,what do you do on this thread NQK apart from insult me and look for fight that you cant win , maybe actually making a post about the dogs might be an idea to get you started with .

Here you go ProjectX - You ready? Sincere, all the way. Since I don't know for a fact that you lied, I sincerely, from the bottom of my heart apologize for calling you a liar. To break it down even further and to make sure you all understand - I APOLOGIZE FOR CALLING YOU A LIAR! Sincere and all.

Now I would expect a "MAN" to apologize back at me for calling me all those tasteless things you called me now. Making accusations against my manhood???? That hurts and being a "real man" of honesty and integrity, I expect a full apology from you now.

Now, my contribution to what agitates you so much. 1st - For any man to have 400 recorded conversations with anyone, for any reason turns me away from that person instantly. Seriously. What is driving or burning this guy up inside so bad to motivate him to spend (in my opinion waste) this much time just to be able to say "AH HA - GOTCHA". Seriously. Nothing but this thread has come from Mayfield and his recordings. Nothing fruitful in any sense of the meaning. 2nd - You say calling him a snitch is doing so "with no proof". This is exactly what you are doing. You are calling people liars, which you don't like to be called, with no proof. Recordings of people saying things doesn't make anyone a liar, unless, you can prove who's on the tapes. If you can't do that, then you sir, "have no proof". So I'm merely doing the same thing you are doing. To take it a step further, to show you how nice and willing I am to work with you, I actually DO BELIEVE that it's Mayfield on your tapes, but still, me believing, you believing and everyone on this planet believing anything, does not PROVE anything to be a fact. So you are stirring a pot, as interesting as it might could be, with NO PROOF.

So, my contribution to your topic is not about the dogs as I have stated and will continue to do so, I couldn't care less about the breeding of the dogs you mention. It won't do me, my dogs, or anyone else any good to change the pedigree of the dogs you brought here. Even if you are right and the ADBA changes the pedigree - what was gained? Nothing. Nothing of substance anyways. No one is going to go out, put their entire yard down and start over are they? No one is going to build a memorial to Don Mayfield and proclaim him the most honest of all dogmen that ever lived or give him credit for anything other than what he's already done. He's dead as is this conspiracy theory stuff guys keep digging up.

I believe this a wasted endeavor - this straightening out of pedigrees based on NO PROVABLE FACTS! That is my contribution and since I apologized, I'll look for your apology since you set the bar so high and the standard for integrity.

Take care, hope you find what you seek and may the Good Lord bless you and yours in 2014

[projectx]

Here you go ProjectX - You ready? Sincere, all the way. Since I don't know for a fact that you lied, I sincerely, from the bottom of my heart apologize for calling you a liar. To break it down even further and to make sure you all understand - I APOLOGIZE FOR CALLING YOU A LIAR! Sincere and all.

Now I would expect a "MAN" to apologize back at me for calling me all those tasteless things you called me now. Making accusations against my manhood???? That hurts and being a "real man" of honesty and integrity, I expect a full apology from you now.

Now, my contribution to what agitates you so much. 1st - For any man to have 400 recorded conversations with anyone, for any reason turns me away from that person instantly. Seriously. What is driving or burning this guy up inside so bad to motivate him to spend (in my opinion waste) this much time just to be able to say "AH HA - GOTCHA". Seriously. Nothing but this thread has come from Mayfield and his recordings. Nothing fruitful in any sense of the meaning. 2nd - You say calling him a snitch is doing so "with no proof". This is exactly what you are doing. You are calling people liars, which you don't like to be called, with no proof. Recordings of people saying things doesn't make anyone a liar, unless, you can prove who's on the tapes. If you can't do that, then you sir, "have no proof". So I'm merely doing the same thing you are doing. To take it a step further, to show you how nice and willing I am to work with you, I actually DO BELIEVE that it's Mayfield on your tapes, but still, me believing, you believing and everyone on this planet believing anything, does not PROVE anything to be a fact. So you are stirring a pot, as interesting as it might could be, with NO PROOF.

So, my contribution to your topic is not about the dogs as I have stated and will continue to do so, I couldn't care less about the breeding of the dogs you mention. It won't do me, my dogs, or anyone else any good to change the pedigree of the dogs you brought here. Even if you are right and the ADBA changes the pedigree - what was gained? Nothing. Nothing of substance anyways. No one is going to go out, put their entire yard down and start over are they? No one is going to build a memorial to Don Mayfield and proclaim him the most honest of all dogmen that ever lived or give him credit for anything other than what he's already done. He's dead as is this conspiracy theory stuff guys keep digging up.

I believe this a wasted endeavor - this straightening out of pedigrees based on NO PROVABLE FACTS! That is my contribution and since I apologized, I'll look for your apology since you set the bar so high and the standard for integrity.

Take care, hope you find what you seek and may the Good Lord bless you and yours in 2014

NQK thank you for your appology albiet long overdue and looking at your post hardly well meant as you continue to try and make me out to be like you , when the difference is that you called me a lair saying i didnt have any tapes, which i infact did , so you called me a lair based on nothiog but your dislike of me based on our pms about things you didnt like hearing but you did ask me why i said it so i told you, and then you got all defensive and ever since its lets try to attack projectx
which resulted in you calling me a liar and then having to appolgise, when maybe it would have been better to just pm me and i could have called you and played you some of the audios over the phone , hell i might even have mad a copy for you .

Now i have not called anyone a liar like you called me, i have said in my view based on the evidence that we do have on blind billy that i believe floyd is lying but based on the facts we have and floyds own timeline and story, you had neither of those things when you called me a lair about the audios so its not quite the same thing at all, as i was infact able to prove i wasn't lying , but so far no one has been able to prove floyd wasnt.

Which now conviently you and everyone else dont want to see it as facts, eventhough the dobs and floyds own words havent changed in 50 plus years ,and based on those facts i have said that i dont beleive floyd and i do infact think he is lying, but i have done so not blindly like you did to me, that indeed would be very stupid wouldnt it, no i have questioned floyds version based on abda pedigrees floyds own story of the year he got billy and the very well, known and docunmented never questioned story of dibo and his life, which when you actually do a little research puts more than enough doubt on floyds version , but that is very different to you or me just blindly out of nothing more than hate or anger
calling a man a liar based on zero evidence of any kind.

Now mayfield made those tapes precisley for the reasons jack explained in him recodring pat patrick , to make sure he
could infact keep a record of the conversations so he could indeed have it on record if as an example when talking to maloney
he was trying to get the true breeding of tombstone from maloney or when hes talking to carver about pit general and indian sonnys involvement in that it was being able to understsand who was who and what was bullshit and what wasnt, mayfield said that the match with other dogmen wasnt only in the pit, he said that you can here the match in the audios as there is a lot that people say
that they say to tell you what they want you to hear and theres also lots of truth, and mayfield knew that, but i never said any of the audios were a fact , i said that it helps to hear them and then using all the pieces of the puzzle we are trying to fit toggehter ,we make our chice as to what we believe, and infact mayfield didnt breed to tombstone and sold him becasue he could never be 100% sure he was out of baby,although he felt sure he was , so i never have said that me you or anyone should take those audios as a fact, but more as a very intersting piece of gameodg history which if my few are anytihng to go by god only knows what other great stuff is on the rest of them, and im sure NQK even you who says he has no interest in long gone dogs , which is a shame as i think the more true pedigrees we have the better, but thats you and thats me, plus of course being a fair man as you claim to be i am sure if mayfield was infact elis breder you would not deny him that right would you NQK im sure you wouldnt like that if that happened to you, and im also sure that if you had access to those audios and were able to hear earl tudor talking that would interest you as it should ,and the man we need to thank for that is don mayfield he collected a libary of audios and documents that he said evrytime the indian sonny was at his place he always wanted to get into dons old wooden trunks full of pedigrees but never did lol , its a shame don is being treated like a nobody who has to compete with dog peddlers for some respect, when he deserves so much more from the game he certainly doesnt deserve that.

Nqk one last thing you say that this whole thing is a pointless endeavour , which in many cases is correct, do you beleive your pedigrees that you got from the adba ? (yes)then why doubt the dob on dibo which is not and has never been in question, billy was born in 1952 dibo born march 1951 and unless anyone can prove otherwise dibo didnt get to earls untill at least late 1953 or 1954 and theres never been any record of dibo being bred before that earls , so going by the things we can prove from dobs and arguably thestory of the most famous dog of the modern era in dibo are you saying that the proof is not there ,for in that case neither are yours mine or anyone elses if we want to call the dobs into question then why not everyones .

Now nqk i will galdly appolgise to you if you feel i need to, but first i think that i still need an appology without the follow on comments that is not an appolgy so when you send me that i will as a man of my word give you the same and equal courtesy ok .





N