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[S_B]

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It is hard to discuss the significance of words like "best" without some names or references to go on.

Jack, I believe Kandyman is referring to the best of his stock, and I don't know many truly active dogmen who are going to post up stats with names/references of so and so along with precentages. I don't think a high tag makes a bulldog more valuabe more game or more able to produce the same.

Now having said that, I believe as a breeder if you so choose to sell your stock, then a price that you as an individual feel is going to compensate the loss you may incur parting with that particular animal should be some what substantial. But like stated by Kandyman, that high priced pup is no more likely to turn out.

I have sold awesome dogs for pretty cheap, like Ch Mr. Serious ROM for $300, but that was because his mama and daddy were untouched at the time I bred them.

I think this seperates a breeder from an active dogman, as most active dogmen don't just experiment and sell those pups.

I agree that an experienced dogman can (through his knowledge / reputation) get some great dogs cheap ... or even given to him if he's good enough at what he does ...but most beginners do not have the sense to know which is what, nor the reputation to get anyone's best handed to him for free.

I completely agree...but a beginner more often than not doesn't need someone's "best" because he'll likely eff it up.
Most Breeders/active dogmen aren't targeting the "beginner" as their customer, they are looking to channel their stock into working hands.

Good discussion

S_B

[Officially Retired]

Jack, I believe Kandyman is referring to the best of his stock, and I don't know many truly active dogmen who are going to post up stats with names/references of so and so along with precentages. I don't think a high tag makes a bulldog more valuabe more game or more able to produce the same.

I get your point, but the flipside to that is without knowing what we're talking about it's hard to context meaning to the term "best."

I agree that "a high price tag" doesn't necessarily mean a dog is more valuable, per se, but it damned sure does on my yard ... and on any knowledgeable/honest dogman's yard.

Some pups simply ARE more likely to turn out than others, otherwise why not just breed any bleepin' dog to any bleepin' dog, if "they're all the same"

It is only because they're damned sure not "all the same" ... and there damned sure are breedings more likely to produce world class dogs than others ... that we care so much about pedigrees/who we get our dogs from, etc.

Now having said that, I believe as a breeder if you so choose to sell your stock, then a price that you as an individual feel is going to compensate the loss you may incur parting with that particular animal should be some what substantial. But like stated by Kandyman, that high priced pup is no more likely to turn out.

I agree with the first part, disagree with the second. It's not the "price" that makes a pup more likely to turn out ... it's the breeder's certainty that means that.

I do agree that, just because someone puts a high price tag on a pup, that doesn't mean the pup is "better" (especially if that guy really doesn't know anything and is just selling "tightbred X", with no understanding of anything he's working with) ... but when a KNOWLEDGEABLE breeder breeds his absolute best to his absolute best ... and he's worked with it for a number of years ... YOU BET he knows what he's going to produce

I think this seperates a breeder from an active dogman, as most active dogmen don't just experiment and sell those pups.

Agree. But that doesn't mean the active dogman is producing better dogs. Ch Mr. Serious whipped some extremely successful active dogmen, and outproduced most dogs that have ever lived, dog-for-dog produced.

I completely agree...but a beginner more often than not doesn't need someone's "best" because he'll likely eff it up.

Agree

Most Breeders/active dogmen aren't targeting the "beginner" as their customer, they are looking to channel their stock into working hands.

There are plenty of beginners who have good intentions, and (as a matter of fact) Mr. Serious was in the hands of a relative beginner but, again, stomped some considerably-experienced ass. Same with Ch Vengence.

Good discussion
S_B

Agreed