Who is the Better Dogman?

[Officially Retired]

I'm probably one of them. haha

Sometimes people with small yards shoot themselves in the foot by culling so ruthlessly.
It is almost like they get brainwashed into the genre of "kill anything that can't be shown," which is ultimately a flawed way to do things.

Suppose some "hard culler" does that, and their great Champion they kept dies DG for his 5th ... or gets put down in a raid ... or gets stolen, etc. ... and they killed off all the other siblings? What then? Start all over with new blood?

By contrast, if that dogman had placed the game bum with a friend or family member (or sold it to a beginner), he would still have access to his good blood ... while if he killed off the others he would have none of it.

People who "assume" what they keep will "always be there" often regret their foolishness and find themselves in a bad spot ... while those who place stores of their blood in other locations can always fall back on 2 important things: (1) they can still have access to their blood if they lose the better brother, and/or (2) they can still have access to their blood if they find the game bum is the better producer

In a nutshell, "Waste Not, Want Not," as the saying goes ...

Jack

[S_B]

Sometimes people with small yards shoot themselves in the foot by culling so ruthlessly.
It is almost like they get brainwashed into the genre of "kill anything that can't be shown," which is ultimately a flawed way to do things.

Suppose some "hard culler" does that, and their great Champion they kept dies DG for his 5th ... or gets put down in a raid ... or gets stolen, etc. ... and they killed off all the other siblings? What then? Start all over with new blood?

By contrast, if that dogman had placed the game bum with a friend or family member (or sold it to a beginner), he would still have access to his good blood ... while if he killed off the others he would have none of it.

People who "assume" what they keep will "always be there" often regret their foolishness and find themselves in a bad spot ... while those who place stores of their blood in other locations can always fall back on 2 important things: (1) they can still have access to their blood if they lose the better brother, and/or (2) they can still have access to their blood if they find the game bum is the better producer

In a nutshell, "Waste Not, Want Not," as the saying goes ...

Jack

[ToTheDogs]

lol If you make a habit.of breeding hounds.like awesome baby your.program will follow her and what's behind her. she has had a ton of ones like her and some that.take her lineage. so jack what endearing qualities and or traits that she herself.possessed would make her a candidate.to breed knowing she has.shown you absolutely.nothing in terms of quality traits?

[ToTheDogs]

You're right, s_b.

[S_B]

hey sb I would appreciate if you.didn't.enter my.dogs.on here. thx.

Are you talking to me? What dogs are you speaking of? And instead of posting to this thread, which has nothing to do with "entering dogs" you could have PM'd me.

[Officially Retired]

lol

Good sir, before you "lol" at my post, you should at least take the time to answer my questions ... honestly ... because any laughter would quickly stop.

It is only through honest dialogue, and thorough responses, that the truth can be revealed

If you make a habit.of breeding hounds.like awesome baby your.program will follow her and what's behind her. she has had a ton of ones like her and some that.take her lineage.

You're misquoting me. Again, in order for any dialogue to reach the truth, a person must 1) answer the reasonable questions asked and 2) respond & ask their own questions honestly

I never at any time said a person should "make a habit" of breeding cold bitches. I never said any person should "always breed to bums" either.

What I said was, I agree that a person should go through his dogs, I agree a person should select for the best ... but what I SAID was was a person should NOT kill game dogs with lesser ability ... but to sell/place the lesser ability/game dogs out as back-up. I simply don't believe in killing game dogs, provided they're of reasonable temperament and healthy. So it would be helpful to this discussion for you to take the time to answer my questions honestly yourself, and then to make HONEST references to what I *did* actually say, rather than to make dishonest spins that become something I did not say.

Now then, regarding Awesome Baby, "what's behind her" are some of the best dogs/producers of all time ... and she's also thrown dogs like this ... and more of them than any other single bitch in history, save Honeybunch, and from fewer breedings than any of them too.

That really ought to prove my point.

so jack what endearing qualities and or traits that she herself.possessed would make her a candidate.to breed knowing she has.shown you absolutely.nothing in terms of quality traits?

Again, you're asking me questions without first demonstrating the courtesy of answering mine.

Regarding your question, it pretty much demonstrates a total lack of understanding of genetics, on your part, and how they work. You seem to be operating under the (erroneous) belief that if a dog doesn't possess a trait, then that trait is "lost" ... which is absolutely false. Take any buckskin/blacknose dog with a rednose mama, for example. That buckskin dog may not "have" a rednose, but (genetically) it can still throw them. In fact, if you breed that buckskin dog to another rednose bitch, you will statistically get rednoses 75% of the time. That rednose gene isn't "lost"; it simply skipped that generation, and if you make the right breeding choices you can reliably and consistently get rednoses out of that buckskin dog, in every breeding you make with him, even though he himself doesn't possess the trait.

Now then, if we take this same basic principle onto "ability and gameness," when you have a bitch like Awesome Baby who (though cold) still has some of the greatest performance dogs/producers in the history of the game right behind her ... and if you breed her to other good dogs/crosses down from her same family ... statistically you stand an AWESOME chance of still getting some absolutely great animals ... and her production record proves this.

So your question basically shows you have no understanding of genetics, how many traits/abilities are recessive in nature, and how ANY desired traits CAN be brought back out in the next generation through proper selection and creative breeding choices designed to bring the greatness back out.

Asking me "would I want a yard full of cold bitches" may be a wise-guy way to confuse the issue, because NO, the goal isn't to get a bunch of cold dogs. The issue is NOT throwing away the baby with the bathwater ... but, instead, to be as selective as you can, breeding to the best you have access to, while keeping other, lesser game dogs around "just in case."

Case in point would be Ricky Jones and James Crenshaw. Ricky Jones bred more Champions, Grand Champions, etc. from Crenshaw's culls than what Crenshaw built with what he kept.
Earlier on this thread, EWO had an associate who whipped his ass with dogs EWO likewise culled.

The moral is, just because you "cull hard" and THINK you're making the best selections doesn't necessarily mean you are
Just because you "got rid of" something doesn't mean that the animal has no value ... nor does it mean someone ELSE couldn't build a better monument with your discards than what you can build with what you keep
And, finally, if you yourself lose what you kept, it is always smarter to have its game relative to fall back on ... or even a cold relative ... than it is to start all over again (if you really like what you're feeding).

"Hard culling" is NOT the mark of greatness in a dogman or breeder, BUILDING GREAT DOGS IS
And the simple fact is (was and always will be) that great dogs do NOT always "come from" great dogs ... sometimes the greatest dogs of all time come from inbred bums ... or cold dogs ... which mark a "skipped generation" (just like a skipped rednose) ... but where the World Class Ability comes right back in the successive generation through a knowledgeable, creative breeding decision.

In short, I will always respect a guy like Stone City, who HAS built a monument of greatness out of a cold bitch, FAR more than I will respect a dogman who says he "culls hard" ... and who brags about "ruthless standards" ... but yet who really has never produced any authentically great dogs out of what he's kept.

This is not a slam on any individual here, it is just the absolute truth as far as "proof" and "pudding" go

Jack