Gameness is either there or not, you can add wind....how about ability?

[gotap_d]

If were coaching baseball and I knew the opposing pitcher threw low and forced a lot of grounders, well, that is how I would prepare my infield. Should they be ready for the pop-up? Absolutely, but by selecting the means of practice I will be enhancing their ability in that area of the game. Now did I enhance it or did the ball coming at them at a high rate of speed enhance their ability? Either way, the ability improved with the choice of experiences.

Same with the dogs. I am not saying a dog with absolutely no ability can be transformed into an elite wrestling machine. But anything one does in that area to help teach and prepare the dog is 'enhancing' whatever little ability the dog had from the start. Same with conditioning. A dog on the chain that can give his all for 30 minutes (just a number) and then is properly fed and properly worked should be able to go 45 minutes or an hour, (again just a number). Thus his conditioning was enhanced.

I answered the post based on the word enhanced not substituting that word with creation. Two different things. S

I think the baseball example is a great example so i will go with that it may help get what i am saying across a little better. For example your baseball team will be going against a pitcher that always throws low and away so to prepare your team you PLAN on using a pitching machine to throw low and away to your batters. When you set your pitching machine up it malfunctions the entire practice and pitches in the center of the strike zone(the area where your batters are already very profecient at batting). At the end of that practice did you enhance your players ability to bat against the low and away pitcher? No you did not.

[Officially Retired]

I think the baseball example is a great example so i will go with that it may help get what i am saying across a little better. For example your baseball team will be going against a pitcher that always throws low and away so to prepare your team you PLAN on using a pitching machine to throw low and away to your batters. When you set your pitching machine up it malfunctions the entire practice and pitches in the center of the strike zone(the area where your batters are already very profecient at batting). At the end of that practice did you enhance your players ability to bat against the low and away pitcher? No you did not.

You're arguing nonsense, nothing more.

Yes, any idiot can see that if you "try" to school a dog one way, but it doesn't work out, that the dog wasn't schooled the way you hoped. But that's not what we're talking about.

The whole point is when it DOES go the way you want it to, so to argue some freak exception where "the pitching machine doens't work" is just wasting time talking nonsense.

When I set the pitching machine up to pitch low and away, and it works the way it's supposed to, then I am schooling my batters.

Now if you want to then argue that the "pitching machine" and not me (the coach) is schooling the batters ... well, then here again you are just babbling nonsense, to make noise I guess, but you are missing the entire point of the dialogue.

Jack

[gotap_d]

You're arguing nonsense, nothing more.

Yes, any idiot can see that if you "try" to school a dog one way, but it doesn't work out, that the dog wasn't schooled the way you hoped. But that's not what we're talking about.

The whole point is when it DOES go the way you want it to, so to argue some freak exception where "the pitching machine doens't work" is just wasting time talking nonsense.

When I set the pitching machine up to pitch low and away, and it works the way it's supposed to, then I am schooling my batters.

Now if you want to then argue that the "pitching machine" and not me (the coach) is schooling the batters ... well, then here again you are just babbling nonsense, to make noise I guess, but you are missing the entire point of the dialogue.

Jack

Yes i give the credit to the roll dog/schooling opponent. Dogs are not as easily controlled as a sparring partner in boxing. You cant say dog 1 attack this weakness and dog 2 work on defending this weakness. Its more hoping it goes according to plan. Its not babbling nonsense that has nothing to do with the dialouge. The point was i dont believe it has as much to do with human enhancement as it does with the dog doing the teaching and the other doing the learning.

[Wardog Kennels]

Yes i give the credit to the roll dog/schooling opponent. Dogs are not as easily controlled as a sparring partner in boxing. You cant say dog 1 attack this weakness and dog 2 work on defending this weakness. Its more hoping it goes according to plan. Its not babbling nonsense that has nothing to do with the dialouge. The point was i dont believe it has as much to do with human enhancement as it does with the dog doing the teaching and the other doing the learning.

The coach gets the credit for the training not the sparring partners or the fighter being trained.

[Officially Retired]

Yes i give the credit to the roll dog/schooling opponent. Dogs are not as easily controlled as a sparring partner in boxing. You cant say dog 1 attack this weakness and dog 2 work on defending this weakness. Its more hoping it goes according to plan. Its not babbling nonsense that has nothing to do with the dialouge. The point was i dont believe it has as much to do with human enhancement as it does with the dog doing the teaching and the other doing the learning.

You have a serious thinking disorder. I understand what you're trying to say, but it's still nonsense to say "the jenny" conditions the dog, rather than the conditioner who places the dog on the jenny.

The dog and the jenny would never get together in the first place, without the placement in that situation by the conditioner, and the same is true with the dog and its roll opponent.

Jack

[gotap_d]

You have a serious thinking disorder. I understand what you're trying to say, but it's still nonsense to say "the jenny" conditions the dog, rather than the conditioner who places the dog on the jenny.

The dog and the jenny would never get together in the first place, without the placement in that situation by the conditioner, and the same is true with the dog and its roll opponent.

Jack

If the dog is placed on the jenny and refuses to budge how effective is the jenny. There's no need to continue the back and forth. You have stated your opinion and i have stated mine. In regards to the jenny/keep and schooling aspects you choose to give the credit to the human. I choose to give more credit to the dog. I give the credit to the human in terms of selecting the rightdog to put in keep in the first place.

[Officially Retired]

If the dog is placed on the jenny and refuses to budge how effective is the jenny.

In that situation, what is ineffective is the dog.

There's no need to continue the back and forth. You have stated your opinion and i have stated mine.

Exactly, so why do you continue to banter the same nonsense?

In regards to the jenny/keep and schooling aspects you choose to give the credit to the human. I choose to give more credit to the dog. I give the credit to the human in terms of selecting the rightdog to put in keep in the first place.

Yes, this has all been identified and re-hashed several times now ... almost to the point of qualifying for a Monty Python skit ... so thank you for yet another walk down this absolutely useless sidetrack.

At what point can we cease this stupid digression into the absurd and continue on with the point of the thread?

Jack

PS: You do remember the point of the thread, don't you? I think it had something to do with whether a dog's abilities/gameness, etc. can be enhanced or not, through training/schooling/experience/a bond with the owner, etc.?

[gotap_d]

In that situation, what is ineffective is the dog.





Exactly, so why do you continue to banter the same nonsense?





Yes, this has all been identified and re-hashed several times now ... almost to the point of qualifying for a Monty Python skit ... so thank you for yet another walk down this absolutely useless sidetrack.

At what point can we cease this stupid digression into the absurd and continue on with the point of the thread?

Jack

PS: You do remember the point of the thread, don't you? I think it had something to do with whether a dog's abilities/gameness, etc. can be enhanced or not, through training/schooling/experience/a bond with the owner, etc.?

When did i ever get off the topic of the thread. My opinion has been the same from the beginning. I gave my thoughts, yours are different which dosent bother me. This hasnt ceased yet because you want to force feed me your opinion on the subject like its a fact.