It is always funny to me that the two camps had these two dogs ( and it could be any two in the same time frame) were doing doing dogs at the highest level. It didn't happen because the two parties involved understood the difference in weight. 20 plus years later there is always someone out there who never laid hands or eyes on either dog, but knows one camped ducked the other. Or more often, how a dog is 'really' bred. EWO