Vernon Jackson Family !?

[EWO]

Son found his way to this area. He was well on his way to being the next great thing. Nothing could stay with him. Real special. WC was mowing grass and spun the lawnmower to go the other way and Son shot across and stuck his foot in the blade. A terrible loss. He went back to VJ but never heard much from him after that. EWO

[CYJ]

Hello Big Foot23. That was a long time ago so can not say for sure. Seems Black Friday may have been bred a little different. Having more Lonzo Mike in him and maybe even that long's Mitzie. But can not be sure. He was a lonzo Pratt bed dog that was built more like the Mike dog. Was I think a black brindle. Atlas did show me his papers. Was a extra nice looking dog.

I have not had a talk with Matt lately. One of my questions was the same as yours about the Black Friday dog. Matt knows as much as anyone about the Lonzo dogs. Atlas had Friday,Vindicater,and Rosie on the yard back then

The Lonzo dogs pulled very similar to our dogs or the Eli dogs. Coming at you with a very hard mouth and all out brawl. I never saw a Lonzo dog that could not bite hard. I would like to add that if Lonzo conditioned they were always in top shape.

Vindicater was a red nose/reddish looking dog. When he and Bo went together. Vindicater bit Bo so hard in his shoulder the grape juice shot out across the show room like a person shooting water with a squirt water gun.

What amazed me further after that dog pull. Lester lifted up the lips of Vindicater. All he had left was nub teeth. They were worn down. Vindicater could mash and gum one harder than most dogs with a full mouth of teeth could.

Want to ask Matt about that rumor of Molly Bee being sired by Zebo. Was what Edwards told close to his death. Molly Bee had the same style as Zebo and Stepps Ruby. If my Face bitch or owned Rage in their prime and were Molly Bees pulling weight. I would go some where else to match them. When released Molly Bee was like a Male Lion tearing down it's prey to the ground. Some wanted to call her a cur. Bass&Edwards never dodge anyone. My thoughts on Molly Bee was best to let Molly Bee be. LOL

So if you had a good Lonzo dog it will be able to hold it's own if properly conditioned in all competition. Just some more old history,wives tales and entertainment.

[CYJ]

Ditto EWO. Like I said earlier if you got a good one were very rough and hard mouth. Never came but one way or the other. Very good or very bad. Lot of these dogs were also pushed to young. Most were slow maturing.

Overtime I found that the Heinzl line was hard to click with just any blood lines. Seemed that Howard Tobe/Rose/Tudor's Red Bill blood line worked the best. The Lonzo dogs would have crossed real well with that line. The Kephart dogs were to far out West as well to try out. I was a family working man on a working mans pay grade.

Wanted to try a lot of things but enough money was always a issue. Overtime I bred too many crosses and had too many dogs. Have at one time almost ninety dogs. As one dog man said on here can consume you totally in mind/body/soul and use up all extra money and then some. I know what he meant because I got to experience it.

[EWO]

The breeding of Molly Bee more than likely went to the ground with Mr. Edwards. There are a ton of people who 'know to an absolute certainty' how she was bred. It is a guessing game now as after she was stolen there were never enough dogs credited to her to keep that line going. Mr. Edwards once said there was a big show with Molly Bee and a bitch was picked for her. He said he walked away just prior to release, heard "release" and he started back to the pit. He heard the crack and it sounded like a .22 rifle. When he got to the pit they were bringing Molly Bee out and the other bitch had the top half of her muzzle broken. It was mere minutes.
I am not sure of the Zebo route myself. One of the rumors I always enjoyed was Hargroves Rufus being out of the stolen Molly Bee. He too finished dogs with no teeth left. He flat gummed the last two. The rumors are sometimes as enjoyable as the actual accounts. EWO

[Officially Retired]

I'd just like to say this was/is a great discussion, very nice to read ... I don't know much about the line, but I do like reading about it

The only pure Jackson dog I ever laid eyes on was this dog: GR CH Junior.

CYJ, are some of your dogs way back there in his ped?

Jack

[EWO]

The ones we saw were rough and rugged and a very large percentage of the time just about freak mouthed. There a lot of W's in there and some L's here and there. A close friend of mine who was a close friend of Mr. Jackson, (and got dogs from Mr. Jackson) told me this. A lot of the L's posted would have been W's if they had been left down for a little longer. He felt Mr. Jackson was quick to pick up as he was a forward thinker. He was breeding or matching down the road even during that match. My friend says that is great, unless you are betting with him. Great posts on some solid history. History I have experience with which makes it all the more interesting. EWO

[CYJ]

Ditto Jack. V. Jackson and myself were partners in the dogs. I kept a low profile due to a very good job and family to take care of. V.J. did the majority of the conditioning. I was with him at just about all his matches. Did all the corner man work. Any where you see Young in his pedigrees today. Those were my dogs are breedings.

As with all partners we had some ups and downs and different opinions on how to breed this or that or to much of this or that. Sometimes may not speak to each other for a month or more. LOL

But we always made up and have remained friends to this day. When I quit the game I turned all remaining dogs I had over to him. Except my Jake dog. I let a local dog man named Nelson who had some Red Boy bitches from Katie have him. Do not know if he got any pups as Jake was up in age by then. Been trying to locate Nelson to find out. He may be passed on by now.

We owned and shared some dogs between G.Cox/Spruill/Braddock/ S.McNiel. Later on in years I got the Face bitch from J. Chandler and the Pearl bitch from S.Shropshire. I was trying to breed up a Bully Son Art's Missy cross to my Carver-Creel dog Chuck. I did not know it at the time. But C. Middleton was doing something similar. He had got a bitch pup off the Boze (brother to Rage) dog bred to my Face bitch when Chandler had her.

I let V.J. breed his Tunney dog to my Young's Face and my Young's Monkey bitch. To build his line back up. He liked all of the pups. Many did not survive the Texas weather and some got stole. The two young Black dogs with white streak markings that Marty Hill had. Got stolen off his yard also.

Tar Heel Matt was just getting into the game in his young twenties. We all got to share some time together. Through Matt and Sonny got to meet and talk with Ozzie Stevenson. Ozzie sent some good dogs to Matt to help him breed up the bloodline he has today. Matt became a very good dog man/breeder and was honest about anything he bred or registered.

Scotty Mc'Neil sold the Carver Chuck dog to a Williams man in Charleston S.C. and I later bought Chuck from this dog man. This Jr Jackson bred dog you just mentioned looks a lot like my Ole Chuck dog. Geek Squad just lost a nice litter off his Jackson Stud dog Soldier. Was bred to a line bred Luther's Diamond Jim's bloodline. Only one male pup survived. That black and White Diamond Jim dog looked like a clone of my Chuck dog just different colors. I feel like I got to live in the golden era of the dog game. Was a thrill a minute.

Overtime putting on those Multi shows for gate money etc. Some of the dog men turned to dealing dope to pay their way. Was the beginning of the end. Should have stayed way under ground and out of site. IMHO.

[CYJ]

Was rereading this topic. Ovahaul I tried to look at your pedigree you listed. The only dog I saw was Mr. Coplin's El Torro dog way back there. Saw none of my dogs or V. Jacksons dogs. Our dogs did not look short and stocky like those two dogs on the pictures.

We bred for a more deep chested not barrel chested dogs with long muscles and not short and muscled bound looking. I liked the longer heavier bull terrier type muzzle like is shown on T. Garner's Dolly bitch. I liked the Colby headed type dog if it had large teeth and a strong Terrier type body build for speed and wrestling. Dogs with to big of a bulldog head with a body not built to carry it. Is like a Boxer that has arms built up to big. Most boxers do not want arm's bigger than 16 inches. A 18 or 20 inch arm can get real heavy to hold up in the later rounds.

The ideal type built pit dog to me, was like the dog shown on the front cover of Pete Spark's My Friend & Mine Magazine. Since I did like the smaller dogs, most were more Terrier type built with those low swinging rat tails. Cheers

[drz]

Great thread. This forum should have a best of section for threads like this.

[Officially Retired]

CYJ is always offering interesting glimpses into our dogs' history, and there's a lot of threads with his particiapation.

Maybe we should have a "Best of CYJ" section