Jack about your post im very aware of al these wrightings and teories.
Ok now where getting into a debate, and post get longer .
Let me please remind some of you and educate others who dindt know , That a greyhound caries Pitbull / buldog blood in its vains!!, AND visa versa!! including Wippet blood.. Hens the Greyhounds carry the same coloration as our dogs and hensh they race with muzles on as the fight like crazy!!. Many a greyhound is being culled as they as young dogs and pups start fighting umongst them (hens they know that High protien levels causing protien posion makes them agressif and start them fighting) . And its known ONES THEY START FIGHTING THEY NEVER RACE AGAIN, THEY KEEP FIGHTING .... If you take there heads of make them 20/30 lbs smaller and put a head of a pitbull on there you see the same dog.. our breed has been build up out of varies crosses not just bulldog x terrier everyting that was crosses with a bulldog that in some way could bring the bacon home wherther it was fighting /vermin killing ore HUNTING was used to breed of
and for those who dont agree and think of it as BS chek this copied from ""Stonehenge on the dog 1849""



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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>NOW thuse this look like a Brindle APBT ore wat!!<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
let me also tell you that i have the fallow up drawings from that book where it shows it took 3 more breedings back into the greyhound to get the best confermation back for SPEED . yet in those days they where used as COURSING HUNTING animals. The pitbull/buldog blood was used to get a fisical stronger animal to take douwn bigger game!!!. in those days 4 on every 10 childeren Died befor reaching there 6th year as kids!. meat was very scares. do you think dogs like the pitbull terrier(known as the BULL and Terrier not to be confused with the bullterrier) was on a regular meat fat DIET!??? hell no. they got scraps with lots of carbs in there . and there meat sours where rodens like rats and mice IF THEY COULD GET THEM ...and many a dog died due to the diseases that came along with these rodens.
the pitbull terrier was also known as the ""poor mans racing horse"" living in the slumbs the gettos of there days. and fought in pubs..PROTIEN and FAT ore MEAT was NOT there stabel DIET!!!...
Anyway the Pitbull terrier and greyhound /Wippet are much much closer related then people realize. we all know to wel that many a pitbull terrier looks like a greyhound or wippet for that matter
here you have one of these dogs GRCH Mammy now aint that a WIPPET!!!...



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ALSO THE GREYHOUND IS BEEING BRED IN A BEST TO BEST WAY, THEY DO NOT PRACTIS LINE AND ORE INBREEDING . BECUASE IF THEY DO THEY ""GET FIGHTING DOGS""""
SO THEY BREED A FAST ANIMAL TO A FAST ANIMAL REGUARDLESS OF PEDEGREE.


Let me contigneuw and show the varius oldtimers of the past slowly tru history al the way up to the modern days what they use as there diets for there/our dogs..
afther that one, a piece about FEEDING the greyhound. and in the Falllow up post (a BIG ONE that sais it al). ...

the Greyhound FAMILIER related link within the 2 BREEDS greyhound x pitbull terrier. is the sole rezen why APBT dwell so wel on greyhound feeds/ Diets/ Food and there SPECIFIC sientific divelopt and studied suplemends made for that 500.000.000 USD world wide scene ......... SO THE SLEDGE DOG STUDIES ARE COMPLEATLY IRELEVAND WHEN IT COMES TO OUR BREED!.
AS I ALREDY TRIED TO ACSPLAIN. I do realize my dislectic handycap and being word blind at the same tome can cause confusion in understanding what i trie to say..





this one i copied from another forum where whe where at it and posted these posts...... this topic was about grainless food, but it ended in the same manner where this debate is going. and that is fat ore carbs!. we all know that fat is major importend but the CARBS are beeing shuft under the table and disreguarded as non imported sours of energy. PS for those who belive that cold dens air has nothing to do with it. PLEASE READ the last 2 lines at the BOTOM. You wil see that at higher altitutes CARBSare way importend.... and it sais , (what i have been telling that FAT needs much more oxygen to burn and diliver energy)





Re: Grainless dod food



Ok people post long posts this one is mine and in 2 parts for wat its worth
Just some wel known legends of the past who fed CARBS in there diets some of them didnt use FAT at al,

yet we all know today the importense of FAT in a working dogs DIET,And AS MOST of the profesional conditioners KNOW

SO ARE carbohydrats



Thirty years with the fighting dogs by George C. Armitage



used Lean beef of the neck/bran/whole weat bread/water does not build flesh or fat/







The American Pit Bull Terrier by Joseph L. Colby



used Rump steak/sliced or dried toast/boiled lean beef/dried toast bread/







The Dog Pit by Richard K. Fox



used Rump beef steak/sliced bread/toast/







Dogs of Velvet and Steel by Bob Stevens



“In a well balanced diet the energy needs are primarily supplied by quality carbohydrates. This is not a well known fact, becayse so many people who condition dogs put so much emphasis on protein (believing it provides energy). When a Pit Bull is in his keep (training period sic to eight weeks prior to a fight), most conditioners put him on a total protein diet (generally lean meat and/or liver), with vitamin supplements, etc. – the most don’t provide any carbohydrates. This is fairly necessary in this instance because the dog must be trimmed of all fat so that he goes in as lean as possible and at his lowest weight. But many pit fighting people feed their dogs a similiar diet all the time (but give them more quantity and perhaps cut back on the extra vitamins) believing that the hight-protein diet is the best for their dogs. Actually this type of feeding is harmful to the dog. (You can’t see the harm done; that’s the problem with nutrition) Many dog owners who don’t fight their dogs feed them high-protein diets in the belief that the dog will grow bigger and stronger and have more energy. The popularity of the “high-protein”dog foods attest to this fact. As we will see, protein does contribute growth, but it does very little for energy. In addition, providing more preotein in terms of quantity (rather than quality) will not make the dog grow bigger and stronger. We will take a closer look at the misunderstood protein in awhile, but first let’s see how carbohydrates work. Starch from the carbohydrates is converted into glucose in the intestinal tract and then absorbed into the blood stream. The blood conveys this to all tissues of the body where it is oxidized (combined with oxygen) to form carbon dioxide and water. It is the oxidation process that provides energy. Glucose is often thought of as a fuel, and in a way it is. But it acts as a fuel only when it is oxidized by a comples process that requires the active participation of fatty acids (primarlity linoleic and linolenic), protein, minerals and vitamins (mostly the B-comples vitamins), in order for the cells to extract energy from the glucose. Unused carbohydrates are stored in the muscles and liver as glycogen which the body can draw upon for energy when needed. Unused protein is also converted into glucose, but the process is slower than with carbohydrates. Moreover, protein cannot be digested and assimilated unless there is a proper balance of carbohydrates and fat. The point I’m trying to make is that vitamins, minerals, protein, carbohydrates etc. are synergetic (They work together.), so that a food must be balanced. Excess protein doesn’'t build extra muscle; it’s passed through the system. In fact excess protein can be harmful if consumed over a long period of time. Excess carbohydrates are turned into fat.”



Seen through the Eyes of the Millmaker “Robert Lamm”



used Carbohydrates are composed of carbon, hydrogen and oxygen. Sugar, starch, and callulose are a few types of carbohydrates. All ordinary plants are primarily carbohydrates. Carbohydrates are fuel for the body. Any excess amounts of carbohydrates can be stored in the body and uysed when quick energy is needed. Otherwise, they are converted into body fat. Hard work stops the conversion to body fat and weight gain. Respiratory Recovery Method will protect the small amount of carbohydrates that can be stored in the body and used only during stressful situations like fight night. Five to fifteen minutes bonus energy can be retained depending on the condition of your dog’s health. If your dog is in a superior state of health, you can condition your dog harder and he can withstand a greater amount of stress, instead of your dog devoting energy to fighting nutritional dificiencies.







The Complete Game Dog by Ed and Chris Faron



Carbohydrates comes from starches and sugars. Grains and their byprodycts are usually source in dog foods. Carbohydrates provide energy. Exact dietary requirements for carbohydrates have not been established for dogs. Most dog foods contain a high percentage of carbohydrates.



DON MAYFIELD

The next thing I found out when working a dog is that they can be put in shape most anyway a person sees fit.
Since I was working on a job most of the time, the next thing I started working on was an easy way to work a dog. I had seen everyone else's way of working a dog by now, but I had something else in mind. I wanted to work a dog like a wild dog would work if he had to hunt and kill his food, more so like the big cats do, or like an eagle. They make their kill when they are very thin with no fat whatsoever on them. This is the time when most wild animals kill for food. Their blood count is on a natural high and there is no fat to make them breathe hot. This is when they are their sharpest and make their kill. Their condition at the time of the kill will not return until they are ready for their next kill. In between times the wild will tend to get fat and slow and lazy and they will have miss after miss until they lose all their fat and get sharp, hunting and working their bodies into shape.




used The feed should start with a good hi-protein dry feed about 2 cups at first with ¼ cup of wheat germ, ¼ a can mustard greens, a cup of corn bread, with vitamins of desiccated liver-tablets (7 ½ grains, start at 5 a day and work up to 15 a day) give one vitamin E (400iu) give one vitamin C (1000 milligrams) 4 papaya digestive aid, 1 iron with molasses. Try and have all your vitamins natural vitamins, you should add to your dry dog feed as much as need be. To hold you're dog at about 2 pounds over his pit-weight. Come off this vitamin E five days in front of the match. Add about 1/8 to ¼ a cup of water to his feed just enough to wet it, just before you feed. Four weeks in front of the match start with his meat, good heavy beef like bull-neck, cut the meat into small chunks about ½ in square. Start with ½ lb and add up to 1/2 lb. To ¾ lb 5 days in front of the match. Always cut all the fat out of the meat. Use only red, lean meat. Sear the meat in as little as possible and pour this juice over the meat and mix. (Just so it will be wet going down, but dry when it gets to the stomach.




For the last 5 days the feed should start to change. Feed more red meat and less Purina high-protein and more wheat germ and cereal. Also, start cutting the mustard greens. The next to the last feeding should be not more than a half a cup of Purina high-protein, a half a cup of wheat germ cereal and a half a pound of red, lean meat. Cooked in no water. Should be seared on all sides, very rare, cut in one-inch cubes, with all vitamins. The last feeding should be fed twenty-six hours before his match. Red, lean beef, cut in one-inch cubes with ¾ cup of wheat germ cereal with his vitamins. The meat should be seared in no water, very rare but, seared on all four sides with two tablespoons full of honey.







FEEDING THE RACING GREYHOUND


Your aim in feeding greyhounds is to provide a balanced diet that maintains them in good condition, and allows them to perform to their maximum potential on the racetrack. To achieve this aim you need to know what nutrients are contained in the different ingredients that make up a greyhound’s ration. A nutrient is something a greyhound needs to help it to grow, stay alive and work, as nutrients provides greyhounds with energy.

There are six nutrient groups that are needed in a greyhound’s daily ration:
1.Water
2.Protein (amino acids
3.Carbohydrates/Fiber
4.Fat
5.Vitamin
6.Minerals
These nutrients are all essential to maintain a greyhound in good health, but the specific requirements of each will vary depending on the greyhound’s size, metabolic rate, work load, and existing physical condition.

Besides the actual methods you will use in training your greyhounds, this is probably the most contentious issue you will have to decide. There are as many variations in feeding methods as there are trainers, and when one looks at the feeding methods used in the various country’s that have greyhound racing, the difference is even greater

Food has to supply all of the greyhound’s energy requirements, as well as providing the building blocks for tissue repair, including the blood and all of the internal organs. To be able to make an informed decision as to how your feeding methods are affecting the performance of your greyhounds, some of the functions of the various food components should be understood.

PROTEIN


Protein provides the ingredients required for building, strengthening and repairing the body. However, it is not protein that is absorbed and utilized by the body, but the amino acids contained within the protein. There are 10 amino acids that are essential for good health, the greyhound’s body manufactures some amino acids but most are derived from the food. It should also be understood that different proteins contain a different range of amino acids. Meat is the main ingredient in the greyhounds diet that provides much of the required protein for good health, and may include, beef, chicken, lamb or mutton. The addition of large quantities of a single amino acid to the diet should be avoided, unless it is used as a treatment for a specific problem or illness.

CARBOHYDRATE


Carbohydrates not only supply the energy required for running but also assist with many body functions such as temperature regulation and food digestion. The carbohydrates can be divided into two main groups; they are complex carbohydrates and simple carbohydrates. Complex carbohydrates require processing by the body and provide for a sustained release of energy. Good sources of complex carbohydrates are grains, such as wheat, brown rice, and oats. Grains also include protein, starch, vitamins, minerals and some fatty acids, however for canines to utilize grain foods they need to be well cooked, well soaked and fed soft.

Simple carbohydrates include sugar and starch and are easily utilized by the body and in particular sugars such as glucose and fructose provide for a short-term hit of energy. Unfortunately it is a really short hit, Due to what is called the rebound effect, if you supply the body with a substance in excess, it automatically reduces the amount available.

This is particularly true of blood sugar; within 4 hours of ingesting glucose the blood sugar actually falls below normal. However if you could supply a hit of glucose about 1 hour prior to the Greyhound racing it would be great, simply because it increases the amount of ATP available and therefore increasing early pace.

FAT


Fats are an essential part of the food requirement, like carbohydrates they provide energy and are involved in temperature regulation, but more importantly they contain and are required for the absorption of fat-soluble vitamins and the production of some essential hormones.

Fats can be divided into two groups depending on their chemical composition, they are saturated and unsaturated fatty acids, the fatty acids best utilized by the canine are those of the saturated group. Good sources of essential fatty acids are; fresh raw beef, chicken, and fish oils such as cod liver oil. Unsaturated vegetable oils also contain some useable fatty acids but should be kept to a minimum, as excessive use in the diet may interfere with the absorption of some of the essential fatty acids from the saturated group.

Fatty acids are basically long chains of carbon and hydrogen and are one of the major sources of energy for the body. Unfortunately for the energy in fat molecules to be released, it requires considerable amounts of oxygen, therefore when oxygen levels are low the body basically uses blood sugar for energy.