The margin between working and not working as with most things is relate to dosage. So when I say if someone takes the time to figure out what works, thats what it is in relation to and thats what you will have the most trouble finding. You will have to find the dosage in which will work with the dogs with less cons and more pro's. Which is why I said find the right math. We know what works with people... so you will have to do the mathematics on your own to figure out how it would translate to a dog. Clen is almost always used to cut weight though.