conditioning on raw ( water in take)

[Officially Retired]

Scratching, that's where whatever other carbs you want to feed in a keep come into play in regards to liver. Carbs such as rice, (insert carb here).

Not to mention the fact there are trace carbs everywhere, even in food items you don't think they're in ...

In regards to the fat Jack, they're going to be burning the fat anyway as that is the primary energy source. I don't know if they burn MORE fat then or not, but they're going to be burning it anyway. Also, what kibble feeders need to realize that if they're going to switch to raw for a keep, they need to do it at least 6 weeks before hand. They can start adjusting the dog's body to extra fat by giving kibble with more fat, adding oils, whatever, but if they're going to feed raw in a keep, it is imperative they switch weeks before they even put a weight out so the body can adjust to the food source, the fat content, the whole shebang.

Again, I remember reading somewhere that most of any fat burning that goes on is precisely when the glycogen stores are finally depleted. While the glycogen stores are available, there is no (or virtually no) fat burning taking place, precisely because the glycogen stores are available. This is why, at the end of the work, when the glycogen stores are actually depleted through the exercize, that the most fat-burning is now taking place: the body is converting the available fat stores in the body into more glycogen for energy. In immediately giving carbs for the reuptake of glycogen, the body ceases to need to convert fat into glycogen stores, but instead uses the available carbs for this purpose.

If my recollection of what I read is true, then it would make sense not to give carbs to dogs that are still over the weight, during this 1-hour window, but to allow the dog to burn its own fat and thus convert its own excess into the needed glycogen stores for the next day. By contrast, a dog that is already down to pit weight (or very close) should have its glycogen stores replaced by carbs during this window; otherwise the body will attempt to convert lean muscle mass into the needed glycogen stores (although, with dogs, I have also read that their liver actually produces glycogen for the body when the animal is completely empty).

I also think the primary difference between how dogs use nutrition and how we do lies in the fact we humans are able to convert carbs into energy very easily, whereas (after long periods of work) dogs tend to convert fat sources into energy more so than carbs, even if they have available glycogen stores in the body.

What I've found in letting dogs drink freely is that they will drink a lot immediately after work. That will satiate their thirst AND help rehydrate the dog. The problem I have with all of that is two fold. One is as you mentioned. I can't sit and watch the dog and his water all day nor am I able to give him X amount of water at set intervals. Another problem I've found is that dog's drinking water in a 4 hour window range of work always work shitty. Every dog I've ever owned that did that, to the T, worked like shit that day. The dilemma is what if the dog NEEDS the water at that time to help rehydrate? That is why I like all the water in the feed, whether at once or split. It eliminates ME stressing, and it eliminates the dog making silly, dog-like decisions.

Exactly. Giving all the water "after the work" essentially allows you more control over what you're doing, but again I am not sure if it is "best practice" to give it along with the feed as well simultaneously. I do know that dogs' stomachs are capable of processing a lot of food at one setting, and that their digestive juices are exceptionally-strong and able to do so ... but (again) I am not sure that this necessarily holds true when the stomach is diluted with an entire day's supply of water that's been added to it as well.

Taso, a dog's primary energy source is fat, but carbs still play a part in the energy expenditure. By giving something such as maltodextrin in a 30minute window, the reuptake of glycogen is I believe 60-65%, maybe more. Then, whatever other carbs you feed will bump you up to 100% by the next time to work. So you're effectively replenishing your glycogen stores (which fuels the muscle for certain activity levels) everyday. It doesn't take much, and you an effectively get by with doing all of that with a less than 10% carb diet. So, it plays a very minimal part of the feed.

I remember reading another interesting phenomenon unique to dogs as well, namely that (when completely empty ... I mean completely) that a dog's liver produces its own glycogen to keep the dog going. Again, I really need to spend a day looking around for my sources, but I do remember reading something to this effect: that part of the reason wolves are able to just "go all day" and run endlessly with no food or nutrition in them at all, as they hunt, is because they can produce their own glycogen via the liver. (Please forgive me, though, if my recollection is wrong, but I don't think it is.)

What I'm going to do next time is split the water. 50% at night with some pedialyte mixed in, and I'll give 50% the next morning or whatever schedule I'm on at the time. I may be a lot of things, but I sure do love doing different things to see if something works better than another.

That is cool, and let us know how you do. But consider trying it with straight Pedialyte first, as any results obtained will be more noticeable (one way or the other) I would think

Jack